…says National Assembly not a rubber stamp

Senator Orji Uzor Kalu, a former governor of Abia State, represents Abia North Senatorial District at the National Assembly. In this interview monitored on Arise Television, he speaks on the Tax Reform Bills before the National Assembly, why the bill will benefit Nigerians and development of the South-East geopolitical zone, among other issues. ANAYO EZUGWU reports

What are your thoughts on the changes governors of the 36 states of the federation under the aegis of Nigeria Governors’ Forum (NGF) effected on the Tax Reform Bills, especially on productivity derivation and population?

I believe the governors have just done the needful by doing what I feel was just. I listened to them one after the other and commend them for endorsing the reform.

I have always said from day one that this bill that was presented to the National Assembly is progressive but we needed to also expand the discussion with other people. Most of the laws we are using today in Nigeria are very obsolete.

They are not functional laws and not the kind of laws we should continue using in the 21st century, and especially at a time we want to remodel and reposition our economy.

If we do not do what we are trying to do today, we will be left behind. Countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and all the rest of them, even Vietnam of yesterday, have all left us behind and I believe that we should be sincere in what we are doing. I congratulated the governors and I was more interested and more fulfilled when I heard the governor of Nasarawa State praising the bill, saying there is nothing wrong with the bill.

The problem is that Nigerians do not read, listen and focus on issues to know what is wrong. I must congratulate the author of the bill, that is President Bola Tinubu as well Taiwo Oyedele and the Chairman of the Federal Inland Revenue Service (FIRS), Zach Adedeji. I believe that this bill is going to be good for all Nigerians. It is not political or sectional but for the good of every state of Nigeria and every Nigerian.

I’m happy with this bill as a businessman who is in politics and as a Nigerian who needs this country’s economy to grow. It might be difficult with the few things the government is doing now but in the long run, we are going to see a better Nigeria.

I was with President Thabo Mbeki in 2003 to witness the swearing-in of President Lula da Silva and I saw what happened because Brazil was in turmoil then, but today, they are rolling after a few years that he was president and put in jail and he was recalled back again to be president. So, we need to go to the tough areas and we will come back to enjoy.

It is just that most Nigerians on the streets are over-pampered and we don’t want to work. There is a lot of work on the streets of Nigeria but people only want to live in Lagos, Abuja, Port Harcourt, Aba and Kaduna, and they don’t want to go to the farm. Nobody wants to do what is visible and think about tomorrow. So, I congratulate the governors honestly for what they have done.

What is your thought on the issue of Value Added Tax (VAT) sharing formula, which is one of the key highlights of the propositions by the Nigeria Governors’ Forum?

I believe that the people in the National Assembly have the last say but let me be honest with you, the governors have already set the ball rolling and there is no way to doubt what the governors have done.

In one of my recent interviews, I looked at the ways the governors are thinking and that equality should be 50 per cent, derivation should be 30 per cent, while population can come to 20 per cent.

Once you make the law, it is not sacrosanct because this VAT sharing issue is a small thing compared to what is inside the bill. The bill is more beneficial to the Nigerian people than the sharing formula.

The Tax Reform Bills are progressive. We cannot leave Nigeria the way it is. Things have to change if we want to move forward

I think the governors are just slightly right but I can say that it is a starting point for the discussion and the National Assembly will look at it at that level. I think the President should also see the reason I was saying in the past few months that the bill looks good and progressive but needs wider discussion. This is part of the wider discussion I was talking about and would expect the governors to go further to discuss with the people in their states.

So, this is politics and it is not the law itself. Sharing formula is politics and politics will come behind it and this is what the governors have done. Again, I want to congratulate Nigerian Governors Forum because they have shown leadership in this regard. They have also shown that discussion can pay.

We have been saying that if initially when President Tinubu wanted to get this bill into the National Assembly, enough consultations were made, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. President Tinubu means well and his advisers like Oyedele and Adedeji also mean well but they ought to have done wider consultation.

The Senate President was very specific on this bill by quickly sending it to public hearing because it is the only way we can get the feelings of the people. I never supported anybody withdrawing the bill or anybody putting away the bill because the Tax Reform Bills are progressive.

We cannot leave Nigeria the way it is. Things have to change if we want to move forward. People are hungry and people need to come out of hunger but people will soon appreciate this bill because apart from the appropriation bill before us, this bill should be put on the driver’s seat immediately, so that Nigerians can have the benefits of what we are talking about.

Looking at the tax reforms, particularly the revenue-sharing formula, some will say it places a greater emphasis on the state’s ability to generate and retain revenue based on consumption. How do you see this affecting productivity across the states?

These reforms will bring competition. When people see a country like China, people accuse them of bad human rights record, people accuse them of not respecting the law and people accuse them of a one-party system.

For the past 35 to 40 years, China has been growing by 10 per cent every year, and if you look at it, it’s because there is competition. All the provinces in China are competing against each other. The Federal Government can have a reserve fund to put to any state that is not meeting its obligations.

This is possible, but let me be honest with you; when people say that the First Republic did wonders, I agree they did wonders but it is because there was competition. The Northern Region, Eastern Region, Midwest Region and Western Region, were competing with each other. If we don’t bring back that competition, we will not grow. We will be wasting our time.

There is no state out of the 36 states that is not viable. All the states are viable. It’s just for our leaders, our governors, our subleaders to go back to the states and sit in the state and put their thinking caps. They think about what they will do with their areas and do long-term planning because every state is viable. If you go to a state like Zamfara, it is one of the richest states. If you go to Sokoto, it is one of the richest states.

You go to Kebbi State; the amount of lithium in the state is unbelievable. I deal with international organizations and I have the survey of almost everywhere in Nigeria. There is no state in Nigeria that is not viable. So, people should stop looking down on Northern Nigeria or believe that that the reform will affect them. They have a lot of solid mineral resources that are untouched; it is just to go out and look for investors.

Once we’re able to get investors and get people to explore the mineral resources, the much-needed revenue would be earned. That is also why I said these programmes will be spaced out so that they will not be shaken by the process. President Tinubu came out with a good idea to reform the tax law.

The move is a positive one and I don’t think anybody is only going to oppose a policy that will engender competition and make us work hard. The governors and people in government should stop buying luxury cars every year, they should put money into investment. When we’re able to invest heavily, people can go back to where they are. So, I believe that the law will do well for everybody.

President Tinubu has done the very best he can by bringing this law at this time. People are afraid of bringing this law and I don’t see anything to be afraid of doing this job. The job has to be done. I will vote for this bill and I will support it. But I will also discuss with our colleagues and agree on where that is not fair to others, so that we can fix it.

The bill, even if it is passed into law; there will be continuous amendments when it is not doing well. That is why you have the National Assembly. We are not just going to leave the laws to be stagnant again for over 100 years. We have laws that were made by the colonial masters, which have not been touched. So, we must review these laws as quickly as possible.

What do you make of the perception of people that this 10th National Assembly appears to rubber stamp everything that comes from Aso Rock as we do not see enough interrogation of what the executive is bringing, particularly when it concerns the president?

Let me be honest with you; we are not stooges to anybody and we are not sitting on anybody’s way. We are very independent and we have shown it many times. We cannot come out to start fighting the executive, there will be problem. We’ve had disagreements and agreements, and the president himself has done a lot of consultations among the senators, sometimes among the leadership of the National Assembly.

We are not a rubber stamp; I’m not sure I’m one. You know me very well from when I was governor; I’m not someone anybody can describe as a rubber stamp. I always disagree when it’s for Nigerian people to benefit.

I always say, no, this is not good whether it’s the president or not the president. President Tinubu also knows that. I tell him nothing but the truth and I tell him the way I feel. Anytime I see him, I tell him there’s hunger in the land, we need to fight it. He says, yes, I know there is hunger and we are fighting to reverse it.

So, that is the issue but I must tell you that the National Assembly is not a rubber stamp as some people are looking at it. The issue is that we have a problem in the country and the National Assembly is trying to give the executive every support it can get from us in terms of lawmaking to make sure that we speed up the process of people getting better life.

If I tell you so many things we have disagreed with President Tinubu on, you’ll be shocked. It’s just that we don’t want to make the media happy because they want to see the executive and the legislators fighting.

We have disagreed on many occasions and we kept it. That is where you always see the Senate and the House of Representatives calling for a closed session. We drive away the people. We discuss the issues. We say, take back this to the president or let’s go ahead and do it. There are many times the Senate President has done that.

There are many times the Speaker of the House of Representatives has done that. But we cannot continue letting you people make the Senate and the House of Representatives to be a laughing stock by fighting the executive every time. We are not in a fighting mood. We are in a repairing mood. We want to repair things, so that Nigerians can enjoy the benefits of democracy. I don’t even listen to people who say that the National Assembly is a rubber stamp.

National Assembly is trying to give the executive every support it can get in terms of lawmaking to make sure that we speed up the process of people getting better life

Ask your colleagues, who have interviewed many times, I say it the way it is because I am not looking at anybody’s face. And the Senate President has done his best by putting his colleagues together to be able to make sure that we come out of hunger. In terms of the legislators, we are not going to implement these laws.

We just make these laws. The executive and their team will find a way to implement them. We must approve what we feel is right for Nigerian people and hand it over to the executive to implement. It’s not for us to implement. That is why Nigerian people should stop blaming us.

You see; I hardly talk about my constituency, which is the legislative arm of the government because when I was an executive, I never knew that the legislature was as deep as you think. You are telling me about making a budget. Let me be honest with you; Since last week that I came back from the Christmas holiday, I’ve stayed in the National Assembly from 8.am to 11.pm every day and people still think we are doing nothing.

I mean, it’s not fair. We sit and you could see all the disagreements. We are not a rubber stamp, for God’s sake. We can see all disagreements between the executive and the legislature. You people just showed what happened between the Inspector General of Police and some members of the National Assembly.

That should tell you that nobody is a rubber stamp to anybody. Because we ask questions, we disagree to agree. Disagreeing with the Inspector General of Police does not mean that what the Inspector General of Police was saying is not right. But he further came out. I respect the Inspector General of Police. He further went back to his office to address a press conference to clarify issues.

So, you can see that we always disagree to agree but we don’t come out to fight, especially in the upper house. We are elderly people. Some of us have been governors, some of us have been ministers, some of us have been this and that. We don’t usually come out to disagree the way that will make the media happy. We disagree to agree, and we agree to disagree.

Let’s talk about the South-East, which has long been recognised for its industrial and entrepreneurial capabilities yet we see the region still facing significant challenges in achieving its full economic potential. What specific steps should the Federal Government take to support the development of the south eastern economic corridor?

For me, I think President Tinubu is coming there. I mean, Rome was not built in a day. We are just battling with the insecurity in our area, and gradually we are coming up. We will now start thinking about the next step.

Once we curb the insecurity over activities of unknown gunmen and all the rest of them, we will advise the President and his team to open chapter two of the book. Chapter two will be development. Once you have no unknown gunmen and you don’t have any disturbances, we will talk about development.

We have always asked the President to find the best way to address the issue of the South-East, particularly the issue of the Indigenous People Of Biafra (IPOB).

We want him to address these issues within the context of the law of Nigeria, so that quickly, Nnamdi Kanu will be released from prison, and we will continue to live a better life. Let me be honest with you; Nigerians are suffering because of the problem we are having in the South-East.

The South-East can produce everything we buy from China; we can make them in Aba, Nnewi and Onitsha. Just give us electricity, we will produce everything produced in China.

The technology is there but we need a better atmosphere. We need to properly address the agitation in the South-East, which has cost us hundreds of billions of naira. We need to bring back the ‘I can do it spirit’. We need to sing ‘Enyimba Enyi’ again. We need to go back to what we know how to do.

When I was governor, a lot of things were being manufactured in Aba. People have begged Aba people to stop putting made in Paris, made in Spain, made in Brazil, that they should start putting Made in Aba. We can supply what Nigeria needs from that region of the country.

President Tinubu himself knows this because I can tell you that he slept in Abia twice, when we were governors. He slept in Igbere, my home town, and he saw it himself, and he respects that. I’m sure once we have a good atmosphere, the President will come back to do the needful in our zone.

So, I’m praying that both the lawyers of Nnamdi Kanu and the courts, they should speed up the process and make sure that he is released in accordance to the law of Nigeria because I’m sure President Tinubu will always respect the judiciary. People are calling him to intervene.

Yes, he will intervene, but through the judiciary. The judiciary has to do its job, and President Tinubu will intervene. So, I believe that as soon as possible, Nnamdi Kanu will be released, so that normalcy will return too the South-East.