The Tax Reforms Bills have triggered much debates and controversies that the National Assembly had become split along regional lines. In this interview, a former Director General, National Orientation Agency, Alhaji Idi Farouk, shares his perspectives on the issues with ONWUKA NZESHI and recommends wider consultation on the contentious legislations

What’s your view on the Tax Reform Bills and the controversy it has generated in some parts of Nigeria?

You know, when you have a little baby whom you feed with a feeding bottle and suddenly the mother holds down the baby in an attempt to feed the baby and the baby is crying. T

he baby is crying because forcing down food through the throat of somebody is not good. Although the food is good for the baby, the baby will cry because it cannot understand why you are forcing the food down its throat. That is what I see in the Tax Reform Bills at the National Assembly.

My take is that you have an organisation like the National Orientation Agency (NOA), which has a network of offices down the line up to the local government level; you also have the Revenue Mobilisation Allocation and Fiscal Commission (RMAFC), which is in charge of revenue distribution in the country.

Why don’t you involve these agencies in pushing this bill instead of leaving it in the hands of a contractor. I want to say that the Oyedele committee, which was contracted to design the tax reforms has done a good job but there are certain areas, which are contentious.

For example, the Value Added Tax (VAT) aspect of the bill. The VAT is supposed to be a consumption tax but it is erroneous to assume that certain items are not consumed in certain places and therefore such places should cease to benefit from the proceeds of VAT on certain items. There is a brewery in Kaduna and it is still producing.

.I’m just using alcohol as an example before we come to other items like telephone and other goods and services that people consume. Some people say they destroy bottles of beer in Kano but if you go to any Mammy Market in Kano or any other town across Nigeria, it is a beer colony.

If we can get the data for alcohol consumption in Nigeria, I’m sure you will find out that Kano and even Sokoto are not left out. What about the telephone? Even the tomato they make in Lagos and bring to us is consumed here in the North.

So, while many manufacturing firms might have their headquarters in Lagos, the consumption of these products is done across the country. Let me tell you, whatever policy government wants to bring up, it should do enough public enlightenment to prepare the minds of the people towards it.

I haven’t read the Tax Reform Bills but if people are complaining about it, it is better for the government to listen. As a government, if you are introducing a new policy or law and people are complaining about it, you pull back a little and consult widely to understand the complaints because we are in a democracy.

You haven’t read the bills but from all that you’ve heard from the complaints, what do you think is wrong?

I think that one of the issues is that there is going to be a third party in the collection of some of these taxes. So, there are contentious issues there.

We need to pick out those grey areas and throw them away for goodness sake. Tax reform is a wonderful idea, but government must ensure that the people understand where the reforms are taking us to and what we stand to gain as citizens.

Even if the bills were faultless, you still have to present it and get the buy in of the citizens. I think the Federal Government and the committee set up to formulate these bills should have done a lot more consultations through town hall meetings. If the state governors say they have reservations about the bills, don’t say they don’t know what they are doing.

Why is the National Assembly in a hurry to pass it? Why can’t they give a little more time? The rush to do everything and pass the bill when people are complaining appears suspicious. So, like I said earlier, we need tax reforms but we have to take the people along.

Why do you feel that the National Assembly is trying to force the bill down the throat of Nigerians?

That is where they are making a mistake. They seem to have forgotten that they are there to represent the people of Nigeria. Each one came from a constituency and it was their constituents, who sent them there to make laws for the good governance of the country.

So, if the executive has given you a bill to consider and the people are crying, tarry a while and consult. Otherwise, the people will get the impression that you have been paid to pass the bill at all cost.

Tax reform is good but no matter how good it might be, if you don’t take the people along, and if the people feel that it is bad, you can’t force them to agree

Why the suspicious moves? Why should it not be on the Order Paper on a day you want to discuss it? Why were they behaving as if it is a secret document.

Let us get out of these kind of things. We are in a democracy. These things create all sorts of negative impressions about our lawmakers. So, let us understand that consultation is needed in everything that we do.

President Bola Tinubu initially refused to withdraw the bill but told those who have complaints to seek redress during the public hearing at the National Assembly. Don’t you think that should have resolved the complaints?

It is not a matter of withdrawing the bill. The bill is there but it is on the table of somebody pending when all these consultations are over. By the end of the consultations, we expect that the contentious issues would have been removed or amended, but consultation is important.

Shouldn’t those opposed to the bill have waited to air their views at the public hearing?

Which other public hearing? You’re hearing them on radio and television everyday; you’re reading the opinions published by the various newspapers.

So, they have been talking and airing their views just as I am doing now. I’m saying that consultation is good.

Let the Tax Reform Committee involve the Federal Ministry of Information and National Orientation, the National Orientation Agency and the Revenue Mobilisation Allocation and Fiscal Commission in the consultation and public enlightenment process.

As I said before, tax reform is good but no matter how good it might be, if you don’t take the people along, and if the people feel that it is bad, you can’t force them to agree.

What do you think about Federal Government’s plan to borrow $2.2m to fund the 2025 Budget?

You know, even we as citizens of Nigeria or probably people across Africa, have some dislike for borrowing. That is why you will hear your mother say

‘ I send my pickin go school, I no borrow money from anybody. I build this house; I no borrow money from anybody.’ So, that is part of our culture However, western economics teaches us that borrowing is not bad, especially, for corporate organisations and countries.

I am not an economist but I know that if you borrow and you apply the fund appropriately, it is good. But if you borrow and it is frittered away, then it spells doom for the economy. My advice, therefore, is that if the Federal Government wants to borrow money, it should let us know what exactly it is borrowing for. As we have been told, borrowing is not bad, it depends on how it is done.

The government should let us know that it is borrowing that money to do A, B, C, D and E. Then, when it gets the loan, it should ensure that it applies it strictly to those things it told us that it wants to do. The National Assembly is giving itself a bad name because it does not even spend time to scrutinise the borrowing plans the executive sends to it.

The lawmakers don’t even care to let us know that they are scrutinising anything. Borrowing is not bad in Economics but the concept of borrowing is negative in the African culture. Immediately we hear borrowing, we begin to think that something is wrong somewhere. This is why we ask the questions, which members of the National Assembly should have been asking the executive.

But I think they passed that borrowing plan in two days. It is not right because it didn’t show that there was enough scrutiny and consultations done on the matter. They are not doing a thorough job and they are giving themselves and the government a bad name. This is why it is receiving negative comments from the populace.

What do you have to say about the recent off-season elections in Edo and Ondo states?

I didn’t go for those elections but from what we saw and read in the media, one gets the feeling of failure on the part of the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC), the umpire in the exercise.

Let me use this opportunity to advise INEC that it is killing democracy in Nigeria. What has happened to the BVAS and IREV devices which were acquired at a huge cost? What has been their impact on the elections?

When you take these devices to the field and you don’t use them; no matter how clean that election might be, people will not believe that the process was transparent and credible. If you do not do what you have in the Electoral Act and your own Guidelines for the election, you can’t convince anyone that the election was free, fair and credible.

We spent a lot of money on those devices and you will take them there but you won’t use them on election day. What kind of thing is that? It is not a matter of one place; every election, you will not use them. Are you not killing democracy, Mr. INEC?

What is your take on the appointment of Daniel Bwala as a spokesperson for the President?

Let me tell you, Bwala had just given Nigerians the opportunity to see the goodness in President Tinubu. If I were Tinubu, Bwala won’t reach my gate., not to talk of door. Why do I say so? He (Bwala) did the most damage to the reputation of Mr. President during the campaigns.

There are so many things he said that I can’t even repeat. and which is not fair. Why did he leave the All Progressives Congress (APC)? He left because Tinubu took Kashim Shettima as running mate, which became the Muslim/Muslim ticket. Now, let me talk about that Muslim/ Muslim ticket.

Tinubu himself is a minority in the South because the South is full of Christians; there are more Christians than Muslims. The North is predominantly Muslim and whoever was a Christian that wanted the running mate ticket from North was going to be a minority in the North.

So, for Tinubu to win the election, he thought that there would be no need to be a minority here and take another minority there. I think that was the calculation. But then, Bwala left APC because he was a defender of the Christian faith and went to join the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) to continue with the barrage of abuses on Tinubu and APC.

What he was doing was not criticism but outright and downright indolence and abuse. So, for Tinubu to have taken him back, I think that Tinubu is the beneficiary of this relationship because he is now seen as a longsuffering and forgiving person.

But Bwala is the loser because he said he didn’t like Muslim/ Muslim ticket, so the Muslims see him as an enemy, now he has left the PDP where he was supposed to dominate and returned to APC. I think that politics should be conducted with some decorum. Criticism is good but one should be mindful of what one says at all times, knowing that there is tomorrow.

Again, that brings me to the manner in which some presidential spokespersons respond to criticisms from some opposition figures and elder statesmen such as Olusegun Obadanjo, Atiku Abubakar, Peter Obi and Rabiu Kwankwaso. Some of these personalities, who contested against Tinubu in the last presidential election are political opponents of Tinubu and not his enemies.

When these people speak, it is the responsibility of the presidential spokespersons to respond in a civil manner, clarifying the issues they have raised. It is wrong to abuse former President Olusegun Obasanjo because he criticised the government of the day.

Culturally, it is not right. Educate them instead of abusing them because when you abuse them it shows you do not understand your job.

When Obasanjo says there is hardship and hunger in the land, is he lying? It is the duty of the spokespersons who understand the policies of the government and knows why there is hunger to explain the situation to the man who criticised and to other Nigerians.

They should not forget that Tinubu, Atiku and Rabiu Kwankwaso, all came from the same stable of the Peoples Democratic Movement (PDM). Those who speak for them should be careful how they speak because when they are reconciling, you won’t be there.

What is your take on President Tinubu’s recent cabinet reshuffling?

The cabinet reshuffling didn’t go deep enough. The cabinet is still unwieldy with so many names that we can’t even remember what their portfolios are and what they have done in the last one year.

The ministers are supposed to be the chief advisers to Mr. President in the ministries where they are; they are the people to follow policies of the government and ensure they succeed. In this government of Tinubu, the Minister of the Federal Capital Territory, Nyesom Wike, stands out as a champion.

You’ll recall that for eight years of the previous regime, we didn’t have government in Abuja, but now, you can feel the work that Wike is doing across the Federal Capital Territory. Secondly, the new Minister of Education, Alausa is doing what he ought to do.

He is not sitting down in Abuja but rather he is going round and checking what is going on in the sector. However, I didn’t see the reason why somebody like the Minister of Power, Adelabu, is still there after 11 collapses of the national grid, leading to prolonged power outages in many parts of the country.

If the Federal Government wants to borrow money, it should let us know what exactly it is borrowing for. As we have been told, borrowing is not bad, it depends on how it is done

What about the ex-Minister of Sports, John Enoh, who took us to the Olympics and came back with zero medals? We are supposed to be the giant of Africa but look at that woeful outing and he is still in the cabinet.

That is why I said the cabinet reshuffling didn’t go deep enough because there are people who are there, who are not performing. Meanwhile, there are other people who can do the job better but they were not appointed.

Some critics have accused President Tinubu of being worse than former President Muhammadu Buhari in terms of nepotism and they claim that most appointment now go to the South-West zone, where he hails from. What do you have to say on this?

Well, the South-West has six states and unfortunately, they are a homogenous people of the Yoruba tribe. So, when he takes one from Ekiti, one from Oyo and one from Lagos, it will look like he is taking Yoruba only.

But look at their states of origin and you will discover the spread. So, I do not see nepotism there. Even in Yorubaland, there are complaints by some groups of being marginalised in terms of appointments.

Some states of the South-West feel that they are not adequately represented in this administration. But, look at our football team and its composition most of the time. We all clap when the team does well and we do not bother about their states of origin and ethnicity. All we care is that the team does well in every tournament.

The President must have appointed those he believes will work with him and achieve positive results for the country. I do not see nepotism because all the people he has appointed are Nigerians. However, I don’t know many of them and I just hope Mr. President’s calculation works for him.

What do you have to say on the energy crisis and the current controversies surrounding our local refineries?

That is where I said Tinubu is long suffering and very forgiving. He gave an order to the NNPC: Sell crude to Dangote in Naira. NNPC did not until they went to…

Don’t forget, they told us that NNPC is now a private company but they still have the mentality of a government corporation. They’re no longer a government company.

I just can’t understand it. When he gave that order, it was to reduce the pressure on the dollar but some civil servants had the effrontery to disobey the President. These people still went ahead to issue five additional licenses for the importation of fuel. It is not done. Mr. President should take a decisive action on these NNPC people.

Dangote Refinery is our pride and we need to protect it. Somebody spent $20 billion to build it and some civil servants somewhere are trying to rubbish it. It is very annoying that these same people were the ones saying that the products of Dangote Refinery were substandard and that imported products were better.

They complain that Dangote is a monopoly but they have four refineries, which they have refused to fix, so that they can import products. It cannot go on like this. I will like Mr. President to institute a strong probe into the activities of the NNPC for us to know what is really going on there.

In all of these controversies, Nigerians are still buying fuel at exorbitant rates and the multiplier effect is the inflation on the prices of goods and services and hardship. What is the way out as citizens prepare for Christmas?

If I were in government and the food prices are as high as they are now, I will import food, so that the prices will crash. The earlier policy of giving a window of about 15 months for people to import food has not worked, so the government itself should import the food.

You can’t rely on private business people on this matter because they will even use the window to import what we don’t even need or what we need at an exorbitant cost.

If they bring rice, they will tell us that dollar is high and the price of rice will remain beyond the reach of the average citizen but if the government does the importation, it can sell at a rate that will force down the price of rice in the market.

That is really the way to go but I think it is late now. I don’t advise that government should provide free transport like they did last year. You can cut down on the cost of transportation but when you make it free, you make it rowdy and you run into other troubles.

My advice to Nigerians is that we should remain hopeful because the fruits of some of the policies that Mr. President has put in place will not be ready now. It will probably be good in the future but my hope is that that future will not be too long.

Often times, we hear the President say: there is light at the end of the tunnel. I want to believe too that there is light at the end of the tunnel but that tunnel should not be a very long tunnel, so that we can exit this period of darkness very quickly.