Dr Usman Bugaje is a political activist and civil society leader. In this interview monitored on Arise Television by ANAYO EZUGWU, he speaks on the role of the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) in ensuring credible elections and how power can be given back to the people, among other issues

Nigeria is preparing for the 2027 elections; do you think that INEC, alongside other institutions concerned, are ready for electoral reform, and what next after Prof. Mahmood Yakubu, whose tenure is ending soon? What kind of INEC chairman would you like to see?

I think everybody is fairly aware that INEC, as presently constituted, has lost a lot of credibility and it is very important that the institution gains this credibility otherwise the stability of the country is going to be threatened. When you have institutions that are not delivering, especially a key institution like INEC, if the failure continues, then it will erode not only confidence in INEC, but confidence in democracy itself.

When that happens, you know the consequences. So, let me come back to INEC. I think there are amendments that the whole country is waiting for. For example, that amendment, which I think late President Muhammadu Buhari refused to give assent to, which mandates INEC to use electronic tools and to use technology in delivering the results, is still pending.

But more importantly, why should whoever is the president of the country, and who is an interested party in the election, be the one to propose the head of INEC? I think the Uwais committee made very good recommendations, which have been blocked by those who are interested in manipulating INEC.

I think we have to rescue INEC by making sure that the head of INEC is not appointed by a sitting president, who is going to be interested in an election. So, there are a number of things that needs to be done.

I’m not sure there is sufficient time for us to raise that, but I think the key issues are two. One, that INEC’s credibility is at stake, and two, we have got to insulate INEC from political interference. If that doesn’t happen, the democracy that is holding the country tis actually being run down, and there are consequences.

Considering what former President Goodluck Jonathan said, and I think it ties down with the issue that I really think you should be raising, because the recent gathering in Accra was around the crisis of democracy and its failure to deliver expectations of the people.

In Nigeria; if you take the statistics from 1999 to date, that’s about 25 years, whether you are taking the paternal and maternal mortality rate or Gross Domestic Product (GDP), growth in the economy and indices of development, you will see that from 1999 to date, we have been going down the line.

In fact, the GDP for this year is said to be much lower, actually about less than half of what it was in 1960. In other words, this country, under this democracy, is actually going down, and it is time to really ask: Of what benefit is democracy, if it cannot really deliver?

Is democracy made for the people, or people for democracy? If democracy is supposed to serve society, then it has failed in Nigeria, and it is time to start thinking of how we can really bring about a system that can work for us.

I watched the debate from beginning to the end, and I was saddened by the fact that the elite that gathered there could not think out of the box of Western frame of thinking. In other words, they were all, especially the guest speaker himself, going round and round.

While admitting the failure of democracy, he was still saying that we should stick to democracy and that doesn’t make sense. I mean, you have admitted that this system has failed to deliver, and you are saying that we should still hang on to it.

When we’re trying to understand the qualities we want in an INEC chairman, should zoning or geopolitical zones be dominating the conversation?

I’m sure you know my view about zoning. I’ve said it severally. I don’t think this country, in this particular difficult time, with the experience we’ve had in the last 25 years, should really be stuck with any form of zoning. What we really require are competent people to fix our country.

This country holds a great promise, not only for Africa, but actually for the world. In 25 years, this country is going to be the third largest country in the world. So, if it’s going to survive and thrive, this is the time to plan. How do we feed this large number of people? How do we provide the infrastructure?

How do we provide the jobs? How do we provide housing? So, this is the time we need competent leaders. It saddens me that we are still stuck with zoning. We have zoned for the last 25 years; where has that taken this country to? Therefore, it is time to stop this childish idea and really face the reality.

We need competent people and Nigeria has competent people. Yes, you need to be inclusive in whatever you do, but that’s different from zoning. If people start taking turns to destroy this country; where is the country going to be?

If democracy is supposed to serve society, then it has failed in Nigeria, and it is time to start thinking of how we can really bring about a system that can work for us

All those people who have come either from the North or South, all they have done is really to run this country down in the last 25 years. I’m not impressed, and I don’t think we should continue with the discussion on zoning.

It sort of speaks to our stupidity that this country is going down the drain, and we are still talking about zoning. For goodness sake, what we require are competent Nigerians, and there is no zone in this country that does not have competent people.

We do not prioritize competence, that’s why we are stuck with this stupidity of zoning. So, I think we have to get out of this frame of mind and start really dealing with the issues.

Does it mean that if the next INEC chairman comes from the South-West, you wouldn’t have a problem with that?

I wouldn’t have so long as he’s competent. I wouldn’t have any problem with anybody coming from anywhere so long he’s competent. But you see; that also speaks to my first point. I don’t think the president, and I don’t mean this president, any president, should have a hand in selecting the chairman of INEC.

What do you make of the article in the media that politicians are plotting to rig the 2027 elections as Tinubu shops for Yakubu’s successor?

I haven’t read the article, but I’ve read a number of postings making either reference to the article or making similar points independently. It speaks to the worries and concerns of Nigerians in a way.

This can only be resolved by use of technology. Technology has the capacity to do that, but the law that enables or mandates INEC to do that is still pending. This is something that does not need a constitutional amendment.

This is something that can be done in the next one, two, three weeks if there is sufficient pressure from the public that this has to be done. We have a way to correct these things, but the political will to do it is not there. What it takes to push the president and those who are in the National Assembly, and who have the responsibility to do that, is pressure from the public.

This is part of the role that you as journalists need to do, indicating the consequences, and then for the civil society to mobilize, so that people can put pressure.

That is how democracy is supposed to function. There are consequences if people rise to a particular point and those in power refuse to listen to the people. There are ways people can also react. We have seen what has happened in Nepal. We have seen what is brewing and coming up time and time again in Kenya, and there are other ways that other societies can react.

Talking about the Ghana conference by the Goodluck Jonathan Foundation, former President Olusegun Obasanjo said he was not interested in a third term, and that he didn’t ask anybody to go and look for third term for him. You’ve been in this game for a very long time, what’s your take on Obasanjo saying he was never interested in a third term?

I can confirm to you that Obasanjo looked for a third term. He did everything that he could within his power to get a third term but he failed. Now, the fact that he did not take a telephone to make a particular call to anybody, or he did not put anything right on third term, is not sufficient evidence that he did not look for a third term. It’s just simply the style. It’s a matter of style.

But all of us in the National Assembly at that time knew, beyond any doubt, that he worked day and night and many of us were threatened by his agents. And there were people who suffered different kinds of harm.

I recall that the then leader of the Northern Caucus of the House of Representatives had to hide in a number of places before we were able to hold one critical gathering that actually helped us to galvanize the country in terms of standing up against Obasanjo’s wish to have a third term. There are so many evidences and those who actually distributed the money and threatened us are still alive.

Those who received the money are also alive. Those who refused to receive the money are equally alive. That is sufficient evidence. So, I think Obasanjo should really come back and begin to see what contribution he can make to improve his country. But this is a matter that is incontrovertible; there is no way he can avoid it. He has done it.

Obasanjo threw a challenge in Ghana and said whoever has any evidence to the contrary as to what he said should come out. You are the first to come out. You should expect a response because he may take you up…

Let him take me up. So many evidences and the people are alive. But, I think it’s a matter we should actually put behind our backs and start tackling the problems of this country because I think that is urgent.