Sule Lamido is a former Governor of Jigawa State. In this interview monitored on Arise Television, he speaks on the crisis rocking the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), zoning arrangement and the formation of African Democratic Congress (ADC), among other issues, ANAYO EZUGWU writes

Have you left the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) or are you planning to leave because there’s talk that you have defected? This is a very funny question because when you say defecting; the question is: defecting to where?

You see, the issue is that today we’re a country which has been mismanaged, where everything wrong has been done in the country. So, it’s not an issue of either defecting or abandoning, it’s what we do, either in PDP, either within or outside, to make sure that Nigeria is safe.

So, the idea of me leaving the party is out of it. Like I said, it’s my own heritage. It’s my own legacy. It’s something which I suffered for, which I made a lot of sacrifice for.

So, when there is a crisis, running away is not the solution, it’s staying and fighting where possible and see what I can do to make sure that what was the dream of a founding father for Nigeria, either within or outside, is achieved.

That’s all. So, I’m not leaving the party. I’m in PDP. I can’t go into a smaller party because, like I say, I swim in an ocean where there are sharks. I don’t go and fetch water in a bucket and then hide behind a tree and begin to torture myself. I will not do that. So, I will stay no matter the difficulties, fight and see how we can make it.

Senator Dino Melaye has left PDP and alleged that the party has been purchased by the All Progressives Congress (APC). Others described PDP as dead. What would you say about that?

Well, I don’t want to engage anybody about the history of PDP and the status. Dino is my very good brother, my very good friend, and he has his own views. But then, when you are talking about APC and PDP, in 2014, who were those in APC? Look at them. Who are those who know who tried to kill PDP in 2014?

So, I don’t want to be entangled in the kind of debate about Mr. A saying this or Mr. B saying this. It’s about an issue of our history. When you are talking about PDP today, whether dead or alive, what was your role 10 years ago in killing or building the party?

Whose role are you talking about?

You are asking me a question, isn’t it? I mean the third party you are trying to talk about. You talked about Dino Melaye, isn’t it that the party, that he said according to you, is dead, according to you.

Who sold PDP to APC? Who sold it in 2014? That’s why I say I don’t want to be entangled in the debate of who did this or that. If you are trying to face the future, to build a country, you need to restore mutual trust and respect for each other, so that you forge and become focused on the issue, rather than diverging about the issue. So, when people say that PDP has been bought by APC, who sold PDP in 2014 to APC?

The Minister of the Federal Capital Territory, who is a member of the PDP as of today, has thrown his weight behind President Bola Tinubu for the 2027 elections. But he’s still in PDP. How do you come to terms with that?

I try avoiding discussing personalities. Because when you begin to discuss personalities, then you are narrowing the issue and getting the whole issue diminished. I’ve been saying that Tinubu will look for somebody who will help him in his own political interest. And there are very willing mercenaries, who are willing to be rewarded and hired.

If you are trying to face the future, to build a country, you need to restore mutual trust and respect for each other, so that you focus on the issues

Remove the office Nyesom Wike is holding today. He’ll be like me, an ordinary person. So, his entire weight, and the rhetoric, and whatever he’s saying now is because he’s got an office which gives him flair, visibility, and authority. Remove him from that office, he’ll be like me.

So, please, leave Wike alone. I don’t know, but I think Wike’s days are numbered because the purpose of picking Wike was to make sure that Tinubu became something in the South-South. And today, by Tinubu’s personal manipulation and personal coercion, he’ll be able to win over Akwa Ibom.

He’ll be able to win over Edo. He’ll be able to win over Delta. And of course, Wike is there for Rivers. So, you see, this area in the South-South was purely secured by Tinubu’s personal effort, not through Wike. Earlier, Wike might have been relevant. But by the time Tinubu is able to secure the South-South in his own basket, Wike will become irrelevant.

And he’ll remove him. I’m telling you that he’ll remove him because he held him for a purpose. He appointed Wike for a purpose, given the office for a purpose, and by the time the purpose is no more, that’s the end of it.

Some are saying that the coalition is one of the best things to happen to Nigeria’s democracy, unifying forces against a ruling party that has dominated the political scene since 2015. What do you have to say about that?

The coalition as an avenue for democracy is excellent. It’s very good for freedom, liberty, and right to say your own opinion. I’ve been saying that part of this coalition should be able to look at the issues in Nigeria. What are the issues? They are mainly four issues, democracy, security, economy, and corruption.

When you look at these issues, you need people who are very coolheaded, who are calm and who are focused. I’m not in ADC but it appears there are too many sprinters in the party. There are too many sprinters and I think the race to 2027 is a marathon.

Therefore, there should be more circumspect in the way they run. They may be able to overtake their own luck. Let them look inward and then keep connecting with people quietly, so that by the time they come out in full force, we should be there. I mean, their own party. I don’t know.

But then to me, I think there is so much rushing. I mean, there are too many sprinters there. I think they should slow down and look at the issue in a deeper way and see how they can have a coalition in Nigeria, coalition of interest and coalition of unity. that we’ll be able to remove this cancer called APC.

I don’t want to get involved into the management and affairs of the ADC because I’m not inside but then, let’s just say I’m willing to support any arrangement by whatever nomenclature to be able to make sure we restore Nigeria. It’s not about Tinubu.

It’s about APC. APC in 2014 and 2023 is the same thing, which is Tinubu or former President Muhammadu Buhari. They’re all APC. So, don’t narrow things down. It’s a failure of the party and the party leaders in Nigeria. So, it’s not about Tinubu. Tinubu and Buhari are the same thing.

They’re all APC. APC is our problem. APC is the one inflicting corruption, which has become a cancer in Nigeria and it has to be excised out of Nigeria.

2027 is almost there; when you say ADC is sprinting, should they really slow down because it looks like they have taken the place of PDP as the main opposition party?

The preparation should be done in a more orderly manner and not rushing. Up until now there has not been anything like ward congresses, local government congresses and national congresses to be seen as the kind of structure I imagine.

I’m just advising that they take it easy. They should go down and create the structure at the ward level, local government level and then come up for the national convention.

They can say we are not ready. But when you have no structure, you are simply floating on top, and it’s a problem. I see hope in ADC but then the approach is becoming a little bit hasty.

Some have argued that a single-term presidency of six years will be the best option for Nigeria, and Peter Obi recently said that with one term of four years he can do the work. How would you react to that?

The issue of tenure could be seen from two different ways. Why are we discussing it; it’s because something has failed. That’s why we’re discussing it. If the leaders in government are doing the right thing, tenure will not be an issue. But because there is a failure of leadership, putting two extra years will not solve the problem.

Whether Obi is going to do one term or two terms, it doesn’t matter. The question is what do you do in that office to be able to address the issues Nigeria is going through, not in terms of tenure.

I mean, Obi can do it in four years. Fair enough. But beyond that, is that the end of it? There should be Nigeria after four years. What do we have in terms of arrangements beyond the ambition of people saying I will do four years or six years.

Beyond that mechanism which is purely an escape route towards ambition. How do we deal with it because the issue is deeper than that. It’s deeper than I want to do four years or six years because there has been system failure in leadership.

That’s why I talk about this kind of mechanism and the people are latching onto it, saying I will do four years or six years to be able to appeal to the voters but that is not the issue. It should be more realistic. There should be more circumstance, and this has been addressed.

This is my feeling. I’m very old fashioned. So, I may not be able to be in tune with today’s generational reality in terms of their philosophy, their psychology and their thinking. But then I think there is something missing; that’s my problem.

So, what do you make of Obi’s one term proposal? It is one term for a Nigerian president, not one term for him. What I’m saying is that he’s going to use other Nigerians. Has he gotten his cabinet already?

When you say, okay, I’ll do only four years, you won’t be able to sit down and say, these are the people whom I share the same philosophy, with the same vision, with the same kind of commitment. So, by the time we get there, they’ll be there only for five or six years. That’s the main issue.

But then you’re not there yet. Uptil now, there’s not been anything like congresses or government. You’re talking about government structure; you’re not there yet.

What I’m saying is that let’s just take it easy. We should not be playing to the gallery by saying I’ll do five or six years. Then, it means the whole thing is okay. That’s not the magic. The magic is the commitment of Nigerian leadership and leaders. That’s more important than anything else.

Your party has ceded its presidential ticket to the South; what do you make of it? Has it; I’m asking you?

Please take it easy. Are you in PDP? There is a programme, which we have now, a committee of zoning. They sit down to look at the history of Nigeria, and the very kind of complexities and say: Where do we look at the presidency, North or South? That has not been done yet. So, why are you saying it has been zoned?

Who zoned it? Is it Jerry Gana PDP? They set up a committee to go and do the zoning. It behoves on the zoning committee to make a recommendation to the National Working Committee (NWC), and then from there to the convention.

What’s your stance on whether the ticket should be ceded to the South or the North?

Arising from today’s peculiarities, the zoning was something introduced by PDP in 1998 for a purpose to cure June 12 1993. Thereafter, Nigerians would be able to look at capacity, efficiency and competence, and then vote for the right person.

Apparently, it’s our own albatross, and therefore it’s a phenomenon, however no matter how you see it, the issue of North and South is not a reality in terms of political calculation.

So, naturally, if they are saying the South did APC under Buhari, but then Buhari is APC. The zoning thing of the North about Buhari; was an APC arrangement, not PDP.