Edward Onoja is a former Deputy Governor of Kogi State and currently represents North Central geopolitical zone on the board of the South East Development Commission. In this interview, he speaks on the call by the Northern Elders Progressive Group for governors in the region to negotiate with bandits and measures by the Federal Government to address security challenges, among other issues, ANAYO EZUGWU writes

Five soldiers were recently killed in Zamfara State, while escorting traders. In addition to this, 58 people and another five soldiers were again killed in Borno State. Why the worsening insecurity?

First, let me begin by first commiserating with the families of these gallant slain soldiers, who put their lives on the line for Nigeria and also communities and other Nigerians along that corridor as you reeled out in your data that have lost their lives. We pray their souls rest in peace. However, I want to disagree with you on the statement of rising numbers.

I would like to say the numbers are there, but I wouldn’t agree with you that they are rising. I can say that the efforts, just like you read out, as commended by the Elders Forum on the North, on the National Security Adviser, Malam Nuhu Ribadu’s efforts, trying to eliminate some of these notorious criminals.

There have been some gains in that regard, and then freeing up some kidnapped victims. That statistics have been reeled out by the National Security Adviser. Yes, we agree that insecurity is still there but under President Bola Tinubu, through his National Security Adviser and the security architecture that they have laid on ground, I think they are making gains.

A former presidential candidate, Mr. Peter Obi, said when more than 100 Nigerians are killed in just one weekend, our figures rival that of countries officially at war. He therefore urged the government to declare war on insecurity. Also, the Northern Elders Forum demands that government declare a national emergency on insecurity but you are saying that insecurity is not worsening…

I said it is not worsening. Efforts are being made by this government to limit the numbers. Figures show that the bandits are being eliminated in their numbers.

When you get the head off, you actually neutralize the real foot soldiers. And we should at least, whilst reeling out these numbers and statistics, also reel out successes because that’s what will give some level of hope to our citizens. On the one hand, and you will also agree with me that security is actually the task and the job of every Nigerian citizen, including the media.

We will commend what you’re doing by letting us know you quoted former Governor Peter Obi, one of the presidential candidates in the last election, as saying when 100 people are killed it means the country is at war.

I disagree with him. Nigeria is not at war. Nigeria cannot be at war. Even when these figures exist, you won’t say that Nigeria is at war because they are flashes. It’s not daily. In the last three months, were 100 Nigerians killed in one week? No.

But if these incidences have occurred, the question is: How do we deal with it? I think that should be the way forward. That should be the statement that should be coming out from supposed leaders. These are not just numbers; they are human beings. And that’s why I started by commiserating with their families because they are great losses.

I didn’t begin without that because if it comes close to me, I’ll feel it. We’ve all lost people and we know what it means to lose somebody. But these numbers does not also show that there are deliberate efforts by government to neutralize the leadership of these bandits that existed prior to this government.

The Nigerian Army recently arrested 11 terrorist logistics suppliers in nationwide operations. Can we say Nigeria is winning the war in the face of worsening insecurity, can we intensify this sort of action and what amount of damage do you think this arrest of logistics suppliers can do to these terrorists?

Let me start by saying that in winning the war, Nigeria is dealing with the root causes of this menace by taking out the headships of these criminals. In fact, I read something. I can’t be certain but I did read something that one of the leaders was neutralized somewhere in Kogi State. It is logical that when you take out the head, you practically destroy the foot soldiers.

And the logistics, like you said, I’m not a security expert but I know that during war, when you cut off supplies, especially logistics, food, water, medicine, drugs, as the case may be, from reaching the enemy, you will so starve them to the point that when you get your foot in the battlefield, you will just neutralize them.

They would have been weakened, they would have been starved, they would have been depressed, they would have been confused, and you can actually get in and get the job done. So, yes, that arrest of people who are the middlemen of these logistic materials is a great one. It’s a top effort that would yield results in the fight against banditry in Nigeria.

No governor as a chief security officer of a state will sit idle and watch people being killed under his watch… they are doing their best but they should do more in collaboration with the centre to get this job done

There are always different ways to solve a problem but negotiating with terrorists or bandits not signify a failure of the government to effectively tackle this problem? What’s the best global practice?

There are kinetic and non-kinetic methods. You use carrot and stick. It can’t be a one cap fit all. It has to be by different means but the ultimate goal is peace and solving the problem.

So, you use kinetic, it solves the problem to a level. You use non-kinetic, if it solves the problem, like they acknowledged efforts by Ribadu, the NSA. Negotiation does not drill down to money all the time.

Some people will voluntarily want to surrender for them to be alive and be reintegrated into the community. So, it is not always about payment of money. But on their call, they are Northern elders. They live in that region.

They understand the challenges in that region. They understand their terrain. They understand the pain. They understand what’s happening. What they are ultimately seeking is peace because once there is peace, everybody is happy. If you can use both methods and still get back to that target, which is peace, why not? You know how you relate with your children.

Sometimes you cuddle them to make them do the right thing. In the past, Nigeria had used that method and it had worked in the Niger Delta region. I won’t call them terrorists, but they were still people who were disturbing states. They were non-state actors. Kidnappings were happening. Killings were happening. So it’s all death, ultimately.

So, I support that both methods are ideal there must be a laid down rule. It must be transparent. They must carry the communities and the governors of the states along. I sense a sarcastic statement from that press release when they said ‘not to be using government resources for condolence visits.’

For crying out loud, people have lost lives. If a governor goes to condole with them, it doesn’t mean that he’s not doing his job. He’s doing his job. But to say you must condole with people, you must commiserate with people, is just normal.

That’s what leaders should do. That sarcasm’ I really didn’t like that part of their statement. So, in that regard, I would say the NSA and the security architecture, must work hand-in-hand with the state governors and forge a common front to dealing with this issue once and for all, a matching order that Mr. President has given to all the security chiefs.

What do you make of the fact that some are saying that state governors are not living up to the expectation because they are supposed to be the chief security officers of their states and they pay them security votes?

When you talked about me being a former deputy governor, I would say this. If you’ve not worn the shoe before, you will not know how it pinches. People can actually sit at the comfort of their homes and denigrate the governors, that they do nothing.

But I can tell you, no governor as a chief security officer of a state will sit idle and watch people being killed under his watch. No, governor will do that, I would say they are doing their best but they should do more in collaboration with the centre to get this job done.

There are comments that authorities, whether it’s government at the federal level or whatever, are merchandising the issue of insecurity and not really dealing with it. What do you say to that?

I would say that talk is cheap. Matters of security and procurements on security are not the things you put out in the open because the enemies are watching and when I say the enemies, the bandits, the terrorists.

But to a large extent, from our budgets, starting from the national budget and to some budgets of states, I think they have allocated substantial amounts to deal with insecurity.

Is it being used particularly for the purpose for which it was procured or allocated?

Unless evidence is otherwise, I would say yes. First, let’s agree that there needs to be collaboration between the states and the centre, and also the local governments. Insecurity happens at the grassroots. It goes without saying that there is still suffocation on the effectiveness and efficiency at the local government levels.

So, I would say whatever matrix that governors use, you know that inflation has set in to an extent what an X amount can do four years ago, that amount cannot do it today.

I’m saying with the increased funding, where local government and state funding has risen from what it used to be before this government to almost times three or four, it gives you a big bucket to use from.

So, as a governor, you allocate more funds to dealing with security issues in your state. And also, whatever matrix you are using, ensure that the Ministry of Local Government and those who control your local governments also allow some level of funding, so that those who will deal with the issue before it rises are equipped with the right tools, the right funding, and the right network to get the job done before it snowballs.