Segun Showunmi, a chieftain of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) Ogun State is a global thought leader and public affairs analyst. He is one politician who is uncomfortable with some developments in the party and the country. In this interview with ONYEKACHI EZE, he spoke on the leadership crisis in the PDP and other national issues

With almost two years to the next general election, your party, PDP is still struggling to find its footing. Do you think it will be strong enough to challenge the ruling party in the election?
That is not correct. For the umpteenth time, we need to think on what we are saying, or what we are even believing. For any part to say it is democratic, it comes with the fact to say democracy is noisy; I don’t mean being in the market place and shouting, I mean that a lot of voices, a lot of opinions, and a lot of actions and rights and privileges will be on the table. For any party to be democratic, it must be a microcosm of people of that environment or country, and in this case, Nigeria.
Now, if you accept these as facts, there is no party in Nigeria that is even having the mimicry of being a democratic party apart from PDP. For people to say that there is a crisis in PDP, that is indeed democracy at work. People will gather, people will have interest, people will challenge things, people will go to court because those rights are guaranteed by freedom of association.
Having rested that, you will look at our rivals, all the other parties, about 16 of them, show me anyone that has anything relating to that, maybe to a lesser extent, Labour (Party); at times you hear them say they are having meetings. The others, have you heard anything to say they are doing anything? The APC, our rivals, it is even most unfortunate that you never hear anything from them. The NEC meeting we are struggling to have, are they not supposed to have something that resembles NEC? The party structure we are struggling with, is their own party made of robots that they will not even struggle for positions? Is their party only a place where one man will speak and everybody will lie down.
Having said that, there is also no truth that PDP is not finding its footing. After the 2023 elections, the party has gone all the way through the rank and file to courts, up to the Supreme Court, to challenge the outcome of the elections. If it doesn’t find its footing, it wouldn’t have been able to do that. The party has also gone to participate actively in primaries for the off-season elections, and there is none of our primaries that was even chaotic or contentious; all our primaries produced candidates. The one that could have been difficult was the Edo State primary. Even at that we even succeeded in managing the people, allowing them to the right of court. Our Ondo primary was so beautiful that nobody queried it. We have participated in elections; we won in some. In Bayelsa, for instance, we won. We believe we won in Edo but we are now in court trying to prove it. Naturally, we lose some because it doesn’t mean the party is the electorate.
So, I don’t understand the idea that PDP is not finding its footing. If it is because of the issue around the NWC, will Damagum continue and all that? Those are natural expectations of what you see as optics of democratic institutions. Anywhere you don’t see something that resembles that, just know that they have created a party form of Zombie’s.

But people are getting worried that the ‘noise’ is becoming unmanageable and strangulating, and if care is not taken, it could lead to the death of the party. Are you not worried that PDP has reached to that level?
No. There are about two or three options for them. Option 1, leave the party. People have left before and most of the time they came back frustrated. A case in point is the group that left before 2015, most of them came back frustrated. The one that tore his party card, Olusegun Obasanjo, even in 2015, came back in 2019 romancing the party one way or the other; Jonathan who lost election in 2015 and did not want anything to do with the party, that APC even has the audacity contemplating fielding him as a candidate in 2023. So, you can see that it is the failure of men who don’t have the integrity of ideas and the stability of purpose that jump here and there. The constitution allows them, but that has never disturbed PDP.
We have lost elections three times, that means, technically, we will be out of power for 12 years by the end of 2027. Were we not in power for 16 years? When we were winning elections and forming a government, did our rivals disappear? If it is the will of the Nigerian people, what makes you think that if we were given the opportunity for 16 years another party cannot be given opportunity for 12 years? In any case, elections are purely the decisions of the electorate. We are saying boastfully that PDP means well for the people of this country, never mind the misinformation and propaganda of our rivals. The people are not so sensitised between somebody making a sweet mouth and somebody who means well. Some of the indicators showed that we meant well and have done well.
During PDP time, nobody quarreled on the basis of tribe, that one tribe carried everything and others looked like they had come to escort them. In our own time, life was abundant for everybody. Teachers were buying cars and building houses. The informal sectors were expanded; people were engaged in all sorts of work – phone repair, skit-making, hair dressing and all that. All these people were taken for granted because we expanded the space, and human beings will also be participating.
Our rivals have been using powerpoint and smart talks to explain why they are the only ones, and their friends are the only ones that have fat bones while the whole of Nigerians will be eating grass. Nigerians are in bondage. Whatever we do, we are going to have a candidate in 2027, they are going to present their own candidate, President Tinubu, they are going to give him an offer of first refusal. We will be on the ballot and the Nigerians will decide. If they like the suffering presently in the country, let them return APC. We are even begging God that Bola Tinubu and his administration should not reduce Nigeria’s population to 100 million people by the time we get to 2027.

You just talked about NEC meeting, and we know that since 2022, PDP has had one NEC meeting. What does this tell you about the state of affairs in the party?
Even in that one NEC meeting we had, I was the one who dragged them to court to force them to have it, in the belief that they would settle all the issues. I am not one of those people who believe that if I take the case to court I must win. If I take a case to court, I hope to win but if I don’t win, I will read the reason the judge did not give me victory and know if I have the opportunity to appeal. I am not one of those who will say the judiciary is corrupt, or the judiciary is biased because I didn’t get judgement. The day I get judgement I will thank them; the day I don’t get judgement I will grumble. It does not have anything to do with their integrity.
On the issue of party NEC you are talking about, they passed a vote of confidence on Illysau Damagum as an acting National Chairman. People are unnecessarily emotional. It is the office that the man carries, and he is doing his best under normal circumstances. What I don’t like about this whole conversation is that I don’t believe that we should reduce a 17 or 18-man organisation to just one human being. I don’t agree that it was the right thing when they were fighting Iyorchia Ayu; I don’t agree it was the right thing when they were fighting Uche Secondus, I don’t agree with them now that they are fighting Damagum.
The problem they are talking about has been cured by our constitutional provisions. Those who are talking, have they asked themselves what sense in having Deputy National Chairman (North) and Deputy National Chairman (South)? Are we such a party that will be creating structures for no reason? We created structure: one National Chairman and two Deputy National Chairmen because we wanted to make sure that if something happens to the Chairman who is a northerner, the Deputy National Chairman from the North takes over, and if something happens to the Chairman who is a southerner, Deputy National Chairman from the South takes over. It is to cure what they are now quarrelling with that we created the two Deputy National Chairmen.
I am of the opinion that if we cannot reform the party; we should allow the laws to exist. And if a man has an injury, it is within his right to go to court for protection. If the court protected him, you have gone to another court to vacate the order.
In any case, we are already in 2025. How many months are left in their tenure? Even if you leave them to finish their tenure you lose nothing. Instead, we can start providing support and structures to help the party, instead of saying that if you lose out the party should die. I don’t agree.

PDP NWC is made up of about 18 and 19 members, and since 2023, this number has depleted. Don’t you think there is a need to fill the vacancy, to make up the number?
According to the Bible, there is joy in heaven when a lost sheep returns. There will be joy in my heart if we settle this NWC issue. I used to tell them that the greatest joy for me is for us to use the opportunity of us being in the opposition and channel the demarketing they have done to the party to start early reformation. There is nothing in our laws that says we can’t have early convention, because at the rate they are going, if they are not careful, if they carry that grudge for a little while, we will run the risk of how we prepare ourselves for the next primary. Sometimes, people are undoing themselves thinking they are doing God.

Let’s come to your zone, the South-West. Already, you have two governors, and there is a threat by the APC that in 2026, one of the states, Osun, will go to APC. Are you not worried that APC might take over the whole of South-West?
APC did not dash us the two governors; the people of these states voted for us massively. In fact, what have they not done to stop us in Osun? But God and the people of Osun voted for our candidate. In the case of Seyi Makinde of Oyo, he even won a second term. You know when you’re always scheming you tend to assume that it is you scheming that even the sun is coming out. But I don’t believe in that. I believe in vox populi, vox Dei!
The people in a democracy are the owners of that franchise and suffrage in that election. If they adjudge the governor of Osun who is due for reelection to have done well, we will also see that he can win. If he loses, he carries his bag and goes back to his house. Serving people is not by force; it is a privilege for you to serve, it is a privilege for you to offer yourself for service. But the people don’t owe you support all the time. The votes belong to them, to do with their votes as they want.
I read that the Chairman of their party, Ganduje, has said they are going to take from us these two states, I don’t want us to see it as a threat. I think that anybody can say that when he is in a euphoria of victory. They can say because they won Ondo they will say the next place for them is the two states. It doesn’t mean they are trying to do it by force. I think they get unduly angry over everything, including what they can just smile over. Ganduje is not an electorate in any of these states; he will only come and do his best and campaign and the people will listen. We will also do our best to campaign and the people will listen. Luckily for us, we are not going to have the challenge of money like that… If these governors are so careless to the extent that they won’t communicate with the people, good luck to them.
We took Oyo State from them. Ajimobi was governor. Oyo has been very democratic; sometimes we win, sometimes they win. May the best happen to us. In the case of Osun, it would be wicked to say that the governor is not connecting with the locals. They call him the dancing governor. I have been there two or three times and see that they see him as being relatable. Even if he is to come to their meeting and he doesn’t dance, they won’t be happy, they will think that he is not happy with them. He has done a lot of work.
I was afraid that maybe he wasn’t doing much. I realised that he was doing a lot of good work there. He has renovated almost all their health centres; he has done so much in their schools. He has distilled all their rivers and canals, and expanded them, just because he was thinking let them not have flooding issues. Who is going to show you that? Is it not a leader that has sense? Otherwise, he would have left it untouched, then water will come and there will be flood everywhere. I have seen he is doing a lot of bridges; he has a 10-span bridge. I have seen what he has done in the Ife-Modakeke area; I have seen what he has done in Osogbo and Ede.
I like people to be served properly. The fact that I am a PDP man does not mean I will not be angry if things are not properly done. For instance, I have always been in love with Uyo, Akwa Ibom State capital. I used to tell people that Akwa Ibom is the place Africans have shown the ability to serve well, because I know how Akwa Ibom was before 1999, and I have seen how they have been up till the time of Akpabio. I saw the little effort they added during the time of Emmanuel. But I went to Akwa Ibom recently for the funeral of the wife of the governor and I was trying to find out all those things Udom Emmanuel was saying he was doing. I couldn’t find the coconut refinery; I couldn’t find the pencil factory. I was very angry. I got where they said they have the smart city. Yes, I saw the building unused. I was very angry. Even though he was a PDP governor, I am demanding that the EFCC should go and carry him, because my idea of politics is serving people, not for people to just go there and waste resources. I told Akwa Ibom that I’m going to start a campaign for the probing of Udom, because I don’t want people to use white elephant projects to steal people’s money.
Uyo is one state that I am happy about. Whenever I travel outside the country, I tell them that I have a state in Nigeria that is cleaner than their cleanest city. That is how passionate I am about Uyo. Ganduje should even pray to have their President reelected before he could open his mouth to say he is going to take something from PDP.

Now to your own state, Ogun, because if not because of infighting within the rank and file of the party in 2019, Buruji Kasamu took the ticket. In 2023, it was between you and Adebutu. Nigerians are blaming personal interest on PDP misfortune in Ogun State. How are you going to bury your interests to advance the cause of PDP in the state?
Since Ogun State was created and since we entered PDP, in 1999, PDP gave our ticket to somebody from Ogun East. His name is Jibrin Martins Kuye of the blessed memory. In 2003, we still stayed in Ogun East. We gave the ticket to Gbenga Daniel, now Senator Gbenga Daniel. Because he has the right of first refusal, in 2007, we repeated the ticket for him. By 2011, we gave the ticket to Olurin of Ogun West. By 2015, we gave our ticket to Gbenga Nasiru Isiaka in Ogun West. By 2019, Buruji Kashamu was the candidate, from Ogun East. By 2023, I challenged for the ticket from Ogun Central; Jimi Lawal challenged the ticket from Ogun East, Ladi Adebutu challenged the ticket from Ogun East. Ironically, Ladi Adebutu comes from the same local government as the incumbent. We dragged ourselves so much for the ticket we went to court. In the end, Jimi Lawal and co lost their case.
My own case was status barred in the Supreme Court because they did not list it on time. Had they listed it on time, I am very sure that the foundation of that election would have been critical. When the die is cast, and I couldn’t come back from the court on time and the party recognised him, Jimi Lawal did not have the political maturity to wait for us to struggle for victory. I did. I thought about it and told myself, this is the time to prove to the world that you believe the thing you used to preach. So, I announced to everybody to join hands and work together. To prove to them that I am better than them, my federal constituency of Abeokuta was where he won with the largest margin of victory; he beat APC with more than 5,000 votes.
After the election, I told people that if Ladi had won, would he not have been the leader in the state? Let us not argue this thing again for the stability stake; let us hope for equity, fairness and inclusiveness. And I have not done anything to destabilise him or even argue with him, because I believe had he been the governor wouldn’t he have been the leader of the party in the state? Those who would not wait, like Jimi Lawal and co, are they still the same people who want to come back through the back door? I told PDP at the national level, please do not destabilise Ogun. When we get to the point of the ticket, we will call ourselves and ask ourselves questions. Technically, Ogun (PDP) is stable now. If Ladi Adebutu can be pragmatic and wise in accommodating people, that will work. But if he insists that he is not going to accommodate people, I’m not the one that controls them. The people have the right to do whatever they want. He is trying because the cost of maintaining the structure is not easy. Things are very tight. Don’t allow people who are not stable to deceive you.

There are allegations that some people in PDP are stoking the crisis purposely to hold the party down and pave the way for reelection of President Tinubu in 2027. How true is this?
If two people are fighting and allege that it is their wicked village people who are manipulating them spiritually to fight, what is supposed to be the easiest solution? The easiest solution to such is not to agree to fight. What about if you do something wrong to me and instead of fighting you, I decide to go my way? At times it is not always fighting that is the best way to get things done. Sometimes, forgoing ambition is the way to reconcile people. If you’re saying some people want to destabilise us, I don’t believe that. Those who are over ambitious, who think that tickets are the ultimate thing in the party, are the ones destabilising the party. I insist, yes, the party must try to form a government, but what is more important is that the party must design itself to be stable and to be reformed, because if the party is reformed, you will like it.

There is this agitation that the PDP ticket in 2027 should go for a young person, and not someone over 70 years. Are you among those who hold this view?
My believe is even that if the PDP wants to go South, the only South they can go for now is South-East, because there is no equity in going to South-West or South-South. The only equity that goes for PDP is South-East, because we can clearly see that we have been excluding them from the ticket, and those who can win election for us, we know them. So, we can conspire with ourselves to give them the ticket.
If PDP wants to go North, there are many people in that North who can aspire. I don’t want to eliminate people based on age; I eliminate them based on lack of pragmatic approach to lead, and I am not interested in the argument that some people should go and sit down. The law allows them to try, but the law also allows us to say no to them. Anybody who stands for election must expect two outcomes.

The policies of the APC government seem to be too harsh on Nigerians. The current issue is about the tax reforms. How do you see the current debate on the tax reform issue?
I think that was the only sensible thing that they have done. If I am to choose between devaluation of currency, removal of (furl) subsidy, students’ loan, the only policy that I will say of the APC that I agreed with is the tax reform bills. The reason is that whereas all these other policies are going to give the Federal Government more money, who h they claimed they are going to use to solve our problems, this tax reform bills actually removed the burden from the poor; and it is height of wickedness for people to be fighting that thing which is directed at alleviating the plight of the poor when they did not fight that which was against the poor. By proposing to remove VAT from food items, they have removed the burden from the poor; by proposing to remove PAYE for people earning less than N50 million, they have removed the burden from the poor. By proposing to share the consumption aspect of the VAT where people are using it, they have helped both the state (government) and the poor. Anybody who is against the poor is my enemy.

The same argument was made when they were about to remove fuel subsidy. It was said subsidy benefits only the rich, but we now see that poor people are the ones suffering it the more. Can’t that also happen in the case of tax reform?
No. Subsidy is just the lazy argument of government because government is pushing its own responsibility to punish those who abuse the system, to the poor. Yes, the idea of subsidy is let them buy it at cheaper price. The argument was that they were smuggling fuel to other countries, and that the quantity we were using was not what they told us that we were using. Is it the poor that were abusing it? So, it was subsidy that was abused by the rich but which the poor was carrying the burden. The poor is carrying the burden because you cannot help the multiplier effect of increase in transport fare due to cost of fuel has increased.
But this one now where they are saying they are going to remove tax on the household things that people consume which is going directly impact on the port. It is the responsibility of government to ensure that the process is not abused.