Barrister Mathew Edaghese is a human rights activist, social commentator and former executive member of the Nigeria Bar Association NBA, Edo State chapter. In this interview with OLAOLU OLADIPO, he spoke on sundry matters. Excerpts:
Nigeria is facing huge challenges due to murderous activities of kidnappers and other criminal activities in the land.
Just recently, President Bola Tinubu declared a manhunt for those responsible for the killings in Uromi. As a legal expert, from Esan land, what is your take on this?
My simple reaction to the presidential declaration of a man hunt for those behind Uromi incident is that you don’t start climbing a tree from the top, the declaration should be comprehensive, he should start from the beginning. Before now, people in that local government have been under siege from Fulani herdsmen and bandits who have made kidnapping a line of business.They would kidnap a peasant farmer and demand a ranson of N10m and community will go on a fundraising spree to pay millions in ransom to rescue someone who had never seen N1m in his entire life.
Do we say that the government has failed woefully in the area of security?
Woefully is an understatement. The President should have declared emergency the time these people were killing our people, it would have been more appropriate at that time. Something led to the incident that happened in Uromi, it was in search of a solution to remedy the situation that gave birth to what happened. We should not lose sight of that fact and the circumstances surrounding the Uromi incident. Hausas and Fulanis are in Uromi, they live there and also do business there, nobody is harassing them, vigilantes did not arrest those ones, neither are they being intimidated. That particular truck was supposed to be a company truck, designed to convey goods and goods only, not passengers’ mode of transport or a means of transportation for human beings. Nigerians are not permitted to travel in trucks, Nigerians are not goods that can be conveyed in trucks like bags of cement or rice, and again. The truck belongs to a registered company in Nigeria with a line of business that is known to all. So, the very idea of saying that the victims were travelling all the way from Port Harcourt to Kano in a truck is already a violation of the established laws.
Can we say that the various security agencies are not seeing these supposed hunters to apprehend them?
That’s a million dollar question begging for answers. Why did security agencies not see them, intercept them, disengage them and put them in recognised commercial vehicles meant for conveying passengers? This is an indictment on the system, it is only in a failed state that such thing can happen.
You have a lot of Road Safety officials on the road who will even harass you for not using your seat belt, I wonder what seat belts were used in that large number in the truck. I think the company’s officials ought to have been invited for questioning for allowing their truck to be used for illegal, illicit and unlawful purpose. Nobody is looking at that. You cannot be demanding a man hunt for those who intercepted armed persons, they were armed. I do not know of any law which allow persons to travel around the country bearing arms, you now want to call them innocent hunters. I don’t know when hunting has become an international occupation where we now carry guns, board a flight, travel to America and go and hunt. I don’t know of any Airline in Nigeria that will allow you to carry gun and board a flight. I also don’t know of any transport company in Nigeria that would allow you to go to their park, board their vehicle as a passenger carrying guns in large numbers and travel. And you are talking of people who were travelling hundred or thousand kilometers. How did they navigate their way from Kano to Port Harcourt, again hunting in Port Harcourt, an urban area. How do you now find animals to hunt in Port Harcourt? Again, if you want to eat bush meat in Port Harcourt, probably it must have been bought from other states and brought to Port Harcourt and sell. There are no such forest in Port Harcourt to warrant people from Kano to come and hunt.
You and I know that Rivers State, Bayelsa State and some of these Niger/ Delta States are surrounded by water. Were these so-called hunters fishermen? And again, you are talking about the Federal Government, under the Land Use Act of 1978, lands and forests belong to the state, they are controlled by the governor and government of the state. So, nobody has the right to move from one state to another state without permission let alone allowing you to come into the state to hunt or occupy a portion. Certificate of Occupancy, CofO, is issued by the state government not federal government, so who gave them the authority to enter Rivers State forest to hunt? Who gave them security clearance? These are questions that border on national security and nobody is asking about it just because of the failed system.
In all of this, do you think the government of the day is proactive the way it ought to be?
The President should be concerned and worried that people can move around this country heavily armed.
People say that the guns are local guns, are they not guns? Can they not kill if fired at someone? If local guns can be used to kill animals that are wild is it human beings that are not wild that they can’t kill?
And I ask again, if you are confronted by kidnappers, or criminals with dane guns, will you say because they’re locally made, you won’t obey the commands of the criminals, knowing full well that when they fire that gun the person is dead? Dane guns are not toy guns, even toy guns have been used on several occasions by criminals to terrorire people. So, I don’t know where that argument is coming from that they are just innocent hunters, who declared them innocent in the manner and territory they were found? This is a territory that has been ravaged by kidnappings, killings, organ harvesting, raping of women and young girls in the bush, and kidnapping for ransom. So, how will you be found in that environment with that number of persons and number of guns and you are now been declared officially innocent.
It is calamitous, criminal and inhuman for any right thinking person to take sides with these so-called innocent hunters.
Are there Nigerians that are above the law, or do they work under different constitution that made them untouchable?
That is the picture that is now being painted before us in this Uromi incident. Because the vigilante that confronted these armed men, that is the word we should use. The media should be very careful in giving definition to these very obvious facts, you don’t colour it. If as a lawyer I am found with a gun in Abuja, I will be subjected to questioning. I am not a soldier, am not licensed to carry arm, even if I carry licensed arms, it’s not everywhere I go. I can’t carry arms to court. If am found with a gun in the court, even if it is licensed, I will be taken as a security threat and charged accordingly.
With the happenings now, a picture is emerging that certain people or group of people are bigger than Nigeria. Do you agree with that?
Yes, I totally agree with you. The system is painting a picture that these set of people are above the law. Because if those people were people of other ethnic nationalities that day, the narrative would have been different even from the media and the authorities. It is a sad commentary that the system operators are creating a picture that some people or set of people in Nigeria are above the law.
Is Nigeria not losing credibility in the eyes of the international community?
We are in a terrible and precarious situation in Nigeria that needs urgent solution. You are talking about credibility, do Nigeria have credibility again in international scene? Is this how a system is run? It’s only God that can solve the problem of Nigeria. If those that are carrying guns today belong to one ethnic group, and they are given a clean bill of health to carry guns anywhere they go and even to hunt hundreds of miles away from their own territory even when they have no right to even be in the bush. Now, can anybody ask one very important question, where were they resident even in Rivers State the time they said they were there? Can they be bold enough to show the entire World the hotel they stayed, hunter after hunting they come home everyday, hunter do not sleep or live in the bush. Were they given permission by Rivers State government? Were they in rented apartment? If yes, who iwas their landlord? These are very important questions begging for answers from those who quickly declared them as hunters.
Is it not something that should be worrisome to the president and the national security adviser?
Of course they should be worried rather than defending them and tagging them hunters. Intelligent Nigerians are asking such questions and there are no answers.
How do you describe the role played by Governor Monday Okpebholo, in the saga?
The reaction of the State Governor to me is sounding too patronising of the failure of the system. He is the chief security officer of the state, and there have been cries loud, clear and audible enough on the activities of kidnapping and paying of ransom to these bandits that have taken over farms from their owners in Edo State.
Ordinarily if you have your person in charge of a system, you shouldn’t be marginalised or abandoned.
The governor has created a picture of helplessness before now while his people were crying for help.
These vigilantes ought to have been commended by the governor, rather than pay them with bitterness.
Yes the incident of extra- judicial killings is the only little question mark there, but then it does not erase the good intentions of those vigilantes. Edo State governor should take a critical look at the issues. He shouldn’t trade with his people’s lives all for his political gains. Again, this is not the first time extra-judicial killing is happening in Nigeria, Lekky Toolgate was one, Udi is another one, killing of Deborah over her belief, killing of christians in the North some is another. Nobody has been arrested. The primary duty of any government is to protect lives and properties of the people. Our governor should wake up. He should know that our people are under siege in the hands of these criminals who are trying to take over the state and our lands.
By law, those who survived the killing, are they not supposed to be arrested and questioned?
Yes those that did not die are supposed to be arrested to explain their role in travelling all over the country with guns, and their claim of hunting all over the country with impunity, by the way who licensed them, is it the Rivers State government? If no, can Kano State government give a license to them to go and hunt in another state, is there an inter-state license for hunting? Are they licensed to kill? Who monitors how they use these licences? These are questions Nigerians want answers to. And our security operatives should as a matter of urgency provide answers to these questions.
Now what is your advice to Edo people, particularly Esan people, where this incident took place?
I’m aware that there is indiscriminate arrest ongoing in Uromi since the incident. Now what do you call mob action, the police now have direct access to people in their homes, how do you identify mob action in that speedy manner? How are they sure that the people they are arresting have a hand in the matter? These are other questions they must provide answers to, otherwise the arrests are not a way to provide solution or enforce the law. And the governor must not allow it to happen especially when that is his own area where he hails from. The governor cannot be seen to preside over the oppression, intimidation and molestation of his own people. If he does, it will be a very sad narrative and aberration. He should protect Edo people from attacks.
How can you advice President Tinubu on security matters?
The President must or should be angry with the spate of insecurity in Nigeria, he should wake up, it is a big shame on us that we cannot tackle kidnappers, banditry and Fulani herdsmen that are making the country unsafe. Government have continued to budget billions on security yet nothing positive is coming out from it. The Fulanis are in the bushes, killing people, kidnapping people, people paying ranson, yet the government seem incapable of stemming the tide. The President is looking for away to cover up these ugly incidents happening in Nigeria, it is not political correctness that will solve the problem. Rather it is delivering of services, protection of lives and properties of the people that should be the focal point of the president. Not political settlement or favouritism.
These criminals should not forget that Edo people are warriors, they are pushing us to the wall, we are a brave people. The governor should act now before it gets out of hand. You can’t beat a child and stop the child from crying. As we speak now, these kidnappers are still in our bushes, victims are still in their camps, people are still paying huge ransom to them. We sit on a keg of gun powder if strong and aggressive actions are not taken against them.
