Minister of Foreign Affairs, Yusuf Tuggar, speaks in this interview monitored on Arise Television on the final exit of Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso from the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) and its consequences on regional security, economic stability and integration, among other issues, ANAYO EZUGWU writes

What’s next for ECOWAS, a lot of people are wondering why ECOWAS went ahead to take a decision that allows citizens of Mali, Niger and Burkina Faso to continue to enjoy privileges within the economic community when they are no longer members? ECOWAS is acting as a very responsible organisation and we know the effects of restricting movement in our region because the Sahel is a semi-arid region. We’ve got the Sahara also within the region. There’s a reason why the founders of ECOWAS and their successors came up with the concept of the ECOWAS protocol for free movement of people and goods.

There’s something in the Hausa language, which is the perhaps most widely spoken local language in the region, referred to as Chirani, and that’s seasonal migration. People move from the northern part of West Africa to the southern part during the dry months, and then when the rains are about to start falling, they move back home to till the land.

That movement in many places is a matter of life and death. The problem that we face today is that that movement was stopped. The movement was restricted in the Sahel. The Sahel region was securitized. And if you remember, I’m sure you’re old enough to remember, and it still exists, ‘maiguards’ coming from the northern countries.

You will see Tuaregs in as far as Lagos and Port Harcourt. They’re not there to stay. When the rainy season is about to begin, they move back. And it’s a seasonal thing because that’s the only way you can survive in this region and it dates back to centuries. Now, what happened was decisions were taken by those same Sahelian states at the time in partnership with the European Union (EU) and the United Nations to restrict some of that movement because there’s something referred to as the EU-Sahel Strategy, which sought to tackle what it considered the twin evils, for lack of a better word, of migration and terrorism, to kill two birds with one stone.

That was how the Niger Republic ended up with what is referred to as Law 2015-36, which not only restricted movement but criminalized any activity related to aiding what is deemed to be irregular migration. So, if your vehicle is used in transporting migrants, if you rent out a room to migrants, you’re deemed to have committed an offence.

So, all of that meant that there was a lot of pressure internally because the entire economy of migration, which is something that sustained people in places like Agadez and north of Agadez, that’s in Niger, as well as in Mali, the same thing in Burkina Faso, ceased. And to further compound matters, you also had the use of certain Tuareg groups that are irredentists and are looking to create their state.

They sought to use some of those groups to fight the terrorists. So, it became a good cop, bad cop type situation, in which one is the lesser of two evils. And in a country where you have soldiers that have been trained and it’s been drummed into their heads from young age that their primary assignment is to keep their countries intact, surely something was going to give way.

This was what further fuelled the military coups that we witnessed in those countries. But beyond all of that, there was also, of course, the instability that came about in Libya after the fall of Muammar Gaddafi. Because to date, we still have this problem of arms, ammunition, light weaponry, heavy weaponry, fighters, continued training of fighters, moving from Libya into the Sahel, and sometimes trickling down into our own countries.

A lot of people are beginning to say that with ECOWAS turning 50 this year the exit of these three countries is one of the biggest challenges that body has faced. Has President Bola Tinubu expressed some regrets as to whether this will not be a taint on his diplomatic efforts?

No, it will not, and it would be unfair for anybody to taint him with that because President Tinubu was not there when there was the first coup in Mali. And what I just described to you; securitization of the Sahel region and Libya and all of that, it wasn’t President Tinubu that caused it.

There are military regimes at the helm of affairs in these countries and they’ve taken this decision. Let’s give it time, I’m pretty sure we have no problem with an AES grouping within ECOWAS because there are other groupings

If you look at what happened in Malil, the coup in Burkina Faso and the coup in Niger shortly after he had taken over, you will see that all of these things were already in play. So, he has tried his best. We have to tell ourselves the truth; the position taken by those AES states was always incompatible with them remaining in ECOWAS because the ECOWAS protocols that those same countries signed onto was that you cannot take your uniform off and continue as a civilian leader. Apart from that, military coups are not permissible, not acceptable.

This is something all the 15 countries agreed on. So, they know this. Yeah, Chad is not part of ECOWAS. This is ECOWAS and the different rules, and in fact, ECOWAS stood as one of the shining lights and it still does. By the way, you know, the way it is being run, the way it is even funded, we’ve got a mechanism for generating funding for ECOWAS, so it stood as an example to others.

So, they also need a justification to continue in power, and they also need a justification for why things are not going well in their countries. It is easy for you to just look at Nigeria and blame Nigeria, or blame sanctions, or come up with these various allegations about France intervening through countries like Nigeria, which is ludicrous.

Anybody that knows Nigeria, that understands the way Nigeria works, knows that is impossible. Something like that can’t happen, but we cannot continue to remain on the defensive and respond to such spurious allegations, and Nigerians also have to realize that this is inimical to the interests of Nigeria. You cannot be championing the interests of another country against yours.

But you understand that the filial ties between Nigeria and Niger, for example, from the northern part of the country…

Are the filial ties between Nigeria and Niger more than the filial ties between Northern Nigeria and Southern Nigeria? They’re not. First and foremost, we want peace in our country. We want to live in harmony, in peaceful coexistence with the citizens of Nigeria.

That should be the primary focus. It shouldn’t be a situation where you are cheerleading a government that is operating without a constitution against your government that is operating with a constitution, which is what even gives you the right to criticize your leaders and to sleep in peace.

That is something you cannot do in those countries. We are not the ones responsible for a military coup in any of those countries. Nigeria had no role in that. We’re not responsible for the conditions, or precedents that brought about the current situation they find themselves in. When they went ahead and partnered with the EU in implementing the EU Sahel Strategy, Nigeria was not a part of that.

Nigeria was involved in the Multi National Joint Task Force (MNJTF) because of Boko Haram. Where Nigeria has been involved in resolving conflicts, and in peacebuilding, you can see how successful that has been in the region, and that’s ECOMOG. You saw what we did in Sierra Leone, you saw what we did in Liberia. We succeeded in peacebuilding where a lot of nations that are far wealthier than us, far more powerful than us, have not done so.

A lot of people are afraid that with this exit of these countries, the issues of Sahelian security structure will be divided. Will the MNJTF still be functioning very well and how do we tackle the Lakurawa group?

Certainly, but again, just like I explained earlier, Lakurawa and some of the effects of what we’re experiencing, particularly in the NorthWest, have to do with the failings of strategies and approaches within the Sahel. And we are now bearing the brunt.

For instance, this strengthening of certain Tuareg-Azawad groups that are separatists, conflicts between Tuaregs and other communities and so forth. We’re beginning to feel the effects because some of them have been displaced and they moved southward into northwestern Nigeria, into Zamfara, Sokoto, Kebi, and this is what we’re contending with.

So, beyond all of that, you cannot simply say, let us solve our security problems by appeasing the AES. Even if you do work with them on the security issues, the security superstructure you mentioned, goes beyond the Sahel, it goes beyond the AES. Until and unless we’re able to eventually resolve the situation in Libya, we will continue to have this problem because it’s like solving a problem in front of your house and at the back door, there’s still a problem. The MNJTF is different and it is not an ECOWAS structure, because don’t forget that Cameroon and Chad don’t belong to ECOWAS.

So, yes, the Republic of Benin belongs to it, which is good, but apart from the MNJTF also, ECOWAS has created a 1,650-strong brigade, which is supposed to be increased to a 3,000 standby force, specifically for fighting terrorism.

This is something that we’re going to see getting into action. And you have several initiatives within the region to strengthen the fight against terrorism. This is why also Niger, Burkina Faso and Mali were being offered $1 million even at the height of the bellicosity towards the ECOWAS countries. We were still offering assistance to fight against terrorism, still offering assistance to support efforts towards tackling the effects of natural disasters such as flooding. They were given $500,000 each.

What is your thought on the counter strategy that these three countries are also pushing back with?

Sometimes the factors that bind us together are far much stronger and you have to bear in mind that countries operate in an anarchical international system. So, national interest comes first and a situation where Togo leaves ECOWAS is simply unthinkable. Forget about what anybody would say.

At a time when we have gone very far with the ECOWAS trade liberalization scheme, at a time when you have SIGMAT for Customs, easy clearing of containers and other goods in transit, at a time when we have concluded on the intergovernmental agreement to be signed for the African Atlantic Gas Agreement that will deliver gas from Nigeria to Morocco, and then further on to Europe through the already existing Maghreb line, this is not likely to happen.

No country along the literal coast of West Africa is leaving ECOWAS, I can tell you that for free. Forget about any anybody might say, grandstanding or whatever. The reality is different from any rhetoric you might hear.

Does President Tinubu feel any sense of personal loss over the exit of these three countries and isn’t someone somewhere assuring them of something better than what they are getting under ECOWAS?

President Tinubu is one politician that understands or comprehends the intersection between economics and politics more than most politicians. So, he also appreciates the temporal necessities of these and he understands time and timing. So, I’m sure he knows that this is transient.

So, this is just a minor hiccup in the history of ECOWAS. It’s not something that is going to prevail, because the overwhelming majority of the citizenry of these countries are not for leaving ECOWAS. We’re going through a period when there are military regimes at the helm of affairs in these countries and they’ve taken this decision.

Let’s give it time, I’m pretty sure we have no problem with an AES grouping within ECOWAS because there are other groupings. There’s the Manu River, for instance, within ECOWAS. So, there’s nothing that says you can’t have your grouping. Even Nigeria itself has the NigerianNiger Joint Commission, which is still in existence, and we continue to meet with them, and we’re still building infrastructure.

Niger recently decided to build an inland container port to augment the Kano-Marai Rail line, which is over 60 per cent completed. So, let’s stop looking sometimes at rhetoric. The economic diplomacy side of the challenge is working and let’s look at the reality on the ground. I haven’t even talked to you about Nigeriens that are in Nigeria today.

Coming to domestic issues in your state, Bauchi, Governor Bala Mohammed has very unkind words for you, saying that you could have done better as a minister but because you decided to want to contest for 2027, you’ve been distracted at the national and international level by your ambition to be governor of Bauchi State. How true is that?

Well, the governor knows that I don’t work that way. It’s not about governorship or contesting. If it was about governorship, I wouldn’t have been the one who invited him to Berlin shortly after he had been sworn in as governor, where I was serving as ambassador and he signed five MoUs with German companies and a German state.

And through that initiative, he was able to make, perhaps, what was the first positive impression of his administration. I organized for him to receive what they refer to as mobility cards for the disabled. The pictures are there. The video footage is there. The MoUs that he signed are there for the record. I then also organised for an NGO called Water is Right. He doesn’t know that NGO from Adam.

I organised it because the owner of the NGO happens to be someone that I went to school with, a German.0 I organised for them to come and fix toilets in all the local governments and state-owned hospitals. He knows that. So, if it was about governorship, I wouldn’t have been doing that. I wouldn’t want him to look good. But now the situation arises where I see him deliberately trying to mislead people and trying to sow seeds of discord in Nigeria because of his ambition because he thinks that he has no other way to continue hiding behind immunity than to contest for president after all, his term will soon end.