Nasir el-Rufai is a former Governor of Kaduna State and a former Minister of the Federal Capital Territory (FCT). In this interview monitored on Arise Television, he speaks on coalition by parties and President Bola Tinubu’s administration, among other issues. ANAYO EZUGWU writes

We’ve heard different scenarios about what political vehicle the opposition coalition will use to challenge and attempt to face President Tinubu in 2027. Which in that chain of possibility is the most plausible? You don’t go to war with only one plan.

So, very early in our discussions, the leaders of the coalition took the decision that we’ll not only look for existing platforms and identify one that is suitable for all of us to go under one roof, but we’ll also explore the possibility of registering a brand new party. Many of the leaders believe that registering a new party is the least risky of the propositions.

I think a brand new party doesn’t have any legacy problems or any viruses injected, because what the ruling party and the government have been doing is to create problems in the opposition parties by recruiting and financing viruses to multiply. This is what is happening in the Labour Party, the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and even the New Nigeria Peoples (NNPP).

So many of the leaders expressed concern that perhaps the best way to avoid this, you are dealing with a mischievous government and party that is totally immoral, they will do anything to eliminate all opposition, is to register a brand new party. And the constitution and the Electoral Act are very, very clear about the qualification for registering a new party.

Many of us do not believe that under the current leadership of the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) a new party will be registered, because Prof Mahmood Yakubu is not Attahiru Jega and President Tinubu is not Goodluck Jonathan. Those were the people in charge when the APC was registered. And many were pessimistic about the prospects of registering a new party. But we said, let’s try it anyway.

Let’s show that INEC is not independent. Let’s show that this government is interfering to ensure there is no opposition. So, we are pursuing both paths, and if both become available, then the leadership will then sit down and consult and take their views to the plenary, and a decision will be taken.

But some would argue that it’s not that’s not an entirely fair assessment to INEC, because the commission has many new applications for parties ahead of the All Democratic Alliance (ADA). Don’t you think it might look a bit partial if the commission skipped the other applicants in favour of registering the ADA?

Look, it is not a queuing system. The way these things should work is that any party that is registered will get assigned a set of officers. The requirements in the constitution that have been repeatedly upheld in the Supreme Court are simple. They are very easy to meet.

So, you don’t need the entire INEC to queue 100 applications and say, oh, we’ll finish A before we come to Z. You assign teams and project manage things like that. You can do this in no time if you want to do it. Of course, they will give those excuses, but we don’t believe it. We don’t believe that.

And when the timelines in the Electoral Act and constitution are very clear, there are a number of days that INEC must respond and say, this is the defect in your application. Otherwise, the constitution says, you are deemed to have been registered.

So, INEC is treading on a very narrow path here. It has an opportunity to show its independence, and it should prove its sceptics wrong. But there are opposing views. The coalition decided that will be pursued, and that’s why you saw the application and it was a collective decision.

Nigerians are tired of the APC, we know that, we have polled that, there is 91 per cent disapproval of this administration across the country

To the public, it looks like there are sort of divisions within this opposition coalition about what the best way forward because you’re not talking about parties coming together like we saw?

It’s not a merger. A decision was taken, okay, to set up committees to engage with existing platforms, as well as another committee to get all the efforts. Already in the coalition, there are about three groups that have made attempts to register their own party.

So, we said, look, come together, harmonize, and come up with one name, one party, one logo, one constitution, and they came at the last meeting. We were briefed on the name and the symbol and so on, and that team was given the go-ahead to proceed with the registration.

Some leaders in the coalition prefer a new party, as I said, while some feel that, we should just go into an existing party and start organizing, because the main battle begins when we have a platform. This is all preliminary.

Does that imply that your presence in the Social Democratic Party (SDP) is very temporary?

When I joined the SDP, I made it clear in my statement that even though I’m in the SDP, just like every other, Atiku Abubakar is still in PDP and Peter Obi has not officially left Labour Party, but we all agreed that if we have consensus on a platform, we are going to give up our own legacy parties and focus on that platform. We are still not there yet.

The leadership will receive a report on the engagement with the SDP as well as the other parties, and then a decision will be taken.

I strongly believe that the SDP is the best platform for the coalition. It has a history, it has a legacy, it has a sentimental value, and everything about it is almost perfect.

The name, the logo, everything, it has a history, and I’m advocating for that amongst my colleagues, but it will be a collective decision. I will do whatever I can to ensure that we unite under one platform.

Whatever happens with your considerable political firepower, the impetus for you will lie with whatever party the collective consensus decides is going to be the vehicle…

Yes, I believe in that very strongly. I believe that unity. Look, Nigerians are tired of the APC, we know that, we have polled that, there is 91 per cent disapproval of this administration across the country.

It’s the worst in Nigeria’s history, but Nigerians are looking for a credible option. They want to see people coming together, putting aside their differences and ambitions, and giving them an alternative to this failure of a government.

Can you put aside your personal ambition to work with Atiku Abubakar, Peter Obi and Rotimi Amaechi?

Big names do not equate ambitions. You’ve mentioned my name but I have no ambition. I just feel that having contributed to bringing about this tragedy to Nigeria by contributing to the emergence of Bola Tinubu as president, I should contribute towards removing this evil that I believe will destroy Nigeria if left unchecked.

The problem is that the PDP, LP and SDP are not officially part of this new party, and there is likely to be a rivalry between them, or at the very least, a rather complicated relationship?

The mistake that most people make is that they think that what we are trying to do is similar to what we did in 2013 with the All Progressives Congress (APC). It is not. Parties are not involved in this coalition discussion. The opposition groups are led by individuals. Vice President Atiku Abubakar has a group of people from PDP, some are not and some are even from APC.

There is a group led by the trio of Rauf Aregbesola, Emeka Nwajiuba and Abubakar Malami, former President Muhammadu Buhari ministers, and this group has membership across all parties. Peter Obi has his group from LP as well as the PDP, and so on. But it is the leaders of these groups that are in the discussion.

We are not bringing parties together. We are not engaging a merger. I am part of the leadership, but I’m not there representing SDP. I’m there as an individual with some political weight, no matter how small, in my state or in the North-West.

So, this how the coalition is formed and it has nothing to do with parties. But we all agreed that if we’re able to come to a consensus about a political party to go into, we will leave our parties and join with all our followers. That is our understanding.

The political party consensus is the first step and the second step is who’s going to actually be the presidential candidate…

First, you need a party. Every party has its constitution and rules. It is the rules of the party that will determine how the primaries will be carried out, how the congresses will be carried out, that will lead to the emergence of party leadership, as well as candidates for the election. That is a second or third step.

We are not even talking about that. This is why I feel quite empowered and encouraged by the attitude of the leadership, because nobody is talking about his aspiration. We are students of power.

So yes, they will do that. But nobody is talking about, I want to be the president, or leave this for me, and so on. Everybody is saying we have a problem; this country is targeted for destruction by a collection of urban bandits.

So, let’s come together, send them back home, and put this country back on track. It is about fixing the country. Nobody is talking about this ambition. And that has been very good so far, and I’m encouraged.

Why it is that whenever a southerner is the president that’s when this issue of coalition comes up. When President Goodluck Jonathan was in office, that was when coalition came up with the APC, and now Tinubu is in office, and it has come up again. What are your thoughts on that? I never thought about that and I don’t care about that.

The reason why the Jonathan coalition came up was as a result of two developments. First, the feeling that Jonathan was not governing the country very well, second, Jonathan made a commitment not to run in 2015.

So, he had problems even within his own party. The third was simply we realized those of us in small parties, opposition parties at the time, CPC, ANPP, ACN, we realized that unless we came together, step by step, election cycle after election cycle, the PDP will be destroying us in bits and pieces. So, it was an act of self-preservation in the first instance for the political parties.

That’s why three major political parties decided we must come together. The second, of course, was the feeling that, you know, Jonathan was doing a bad job, let’s get him out. It has, I don’t think it has anything to do with North or South.

You supported President Buhari in 2019, and for many people, he simply didn’t deliver. You supported Tinubu in 2023 and now you’re saying he’s not delivering. How can we trust that the person you are going to support in 2017 can deliver?

You don’t have to. Don’t trust what I say. It looks like I’m not very good at picking successful presidents. So, don’t trust me if I say vote for someone. Look at your situation, look at yourself and ask yourself whether the person that I’m campaigning for or the person that I’m supporting to be president will be better than what you have now.

Human affairs and life are all about relativity. You have to ask yourself: Will this man do a better job? When we supported Tinubu for president, we were under the mistaken impression that he will be better than Buhari.

Was there something about Tinubu that you detected that separated him from the pack as far as you were concerned the made you to support him in 2023?

Let me respond to that in two steps because you know, it’s very easy for non-politicians to analyze this thing as one continuing narrative.

But actually, the way the thought process works is this and this is how it worked in 2022. For us, as Northern APC governors, the first concern we had was after eight years of Buhari, power should go to the South. We believed that there was such an understanding in our party.

We were part of the formation of the party and we felt that was an honourable thing that must be upheld. So, that was the first step. We didn’t start by saying we want A or B to be president. We just said, look, power should go to the South.

That was the first step. The second step is now that power has gone to the South, who do we support that we think will have a chance of winning because you want your party to win. You want to be the party in power and lots of calculations went into that. Tinubu became the beneficiary of that. But we didn’t start with supporting a candidate.

And I want to say that it was the support of the governors of the North-West, North-East, and North Central. That was decisive in deciding the outcome of the primaries as well as the election. Of course, Tinubu’s puppeteers are now denying that.

They are saying all kinds of things but they will learn their lesson in 2027. This is how it started. Now, for me personally, because you asked me, Tinubu was never someone I was close to, even in the party because in the party, I was a Buhari boy.

Tinubu has his boys; Buhari had his boys. We are Buharists. No apologies. So, Tinubu never really liked me. We never really got along. The person that I got along with was Baba Bisi Akande.

The mistake that most people make is that they think that what we are trying to do is similar to what we did in 2013 with the APC. It is not. Parties are not involved in this coalition discussion

And I was his deputy national secretary. We were among the first leaders of the party. As far as I was concerned, once Tinubu got the ticket of the party, it was my duty as a party man to do my best to deliver him in Kaduna. And wherever I see that there is a potential problem that I can solve to ensure his election, I will do that. Is he perfect?

No. Some people said Tinubu is not his name. Nobody knows his birth date for sure. Nobody knows who his parents are for sure. There are all kinds of questions.

And that didn’t bother you at the time?

It did bother me because I know my name. I know my parents. I know my birth date. I know I have classmates. And there are no questions about whether I graduated from Ahmadu Bello University or not. All those questions were there about President Tinubu.

But for me, the question was, he was governor of Lagos. How did he govern Lagos? He governed Lagos in a very inclusive manner. He had an Igbo guy as a commissioner. He had another Hausa man from Daura as one of his special advisers in Lagos. In 1999, that was almost unique.

He ran an inclusive government. After winning the elections with the Agberos and all that, he went and got Yomi Cardoso, Wale Edun, and Yemi Osinbajo from the private sector to come and help him run the government. So, he did a decent job in governing Lagos.

That’s the only thing we know about him as far as governing is concerned. Every saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. The way I looked at it is, well, look, he did a decent job in Lagos. Lagos has improved. You can’t deny that. He laid a foundation. Many people have issues about how he held on to Lagos and so on and so forth. But the place is improving.

If he can do half of that on a panNigeria level, this country will move forward. So, I said, look, he’s the candidate of the party. I will support him. I will do everything to ensure he wins. So, that’s my explanation. Now, fast forward. Look, the one thing I was almost confident President Tinubu would do would be to have a competent team, solid people. Look at his cabinet.

It’s a joke. The largest cabinet in Nigeria’s history, maybe there are five ministers that can be called ministers in the time I was minister, which was 20 years prior. Who is the Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala in that cabinet? Who is the Obi Ezekwesili? There is just no quality.

A lot of people will be saying that you’re saying these things because you didn’t make it to the cabinet when you expected to do so. Could there be a bigger political price to pay for you?

There may be. I don’t care. That’s me. Now, let’s go back to that. Anytime I remember and anytime I wake up and I see the Tinubu government inflicting more pain on Nigerians and just bungling governance, the simplest things in governance that I knew when I was Director General of the Bureau of Public Enterprises (BPE), these guys can’t even get it together. Whenever I see that, I thank God because I think God saved me.

I’m a very lucky person. I think God saved me from the embarrassment of having to explain to be part of this disaster. So, I’ve never thought twice about it. I never sought to be minister. I was a minister 20 years before; so that’s nothing. Tinubu begged me publicly.

The videos are there to serve in his cabinet. He requested me to change my personal life plans. So, those that are saying because he dropped me, how can I be unhappy about something that I never sought, which it was actually an imposition on me. I had to change my plans. I had to put my PhD on hold. I had to do many things because of his request.

So, it has not happened. I’m grateful to God that it has not happened because I don’t have to explain to Nigerians why electricity is this way. The economy is going this way. The exchange rate is going that way. And so, I don’t have to explain that.

What is your sense of what the wider public mood is because you’ve said that he’s treated the Nigerian people very badly in terms of his policies? Well, we have to ask the people to make up their minds. Do you like what is happening?

This is just two years. If you’re happy with what is happening, if your life has got better since President Tinubu was sworn in on May 29, 2023, fine.

But if not, why not give some other people a chance? Throughout the polling before the 2023 election, we knew that the election was going to be tight, very tight. But we were ahead.

We knew we were going to be tight. We have done some polling. And I have mentioned some time ago that in many parts of the country, particularly in the southeast and the north, President Tinubu has 91% disapproval rating. Even in Lagos, he has 78 per cent disapproval rating.

And in some states in the South-West, he’s doing a bit better in Ekiti State. He’s doing better than 78 per cent disapproval rating. But there is no way he’s doing better than 50 per cent, even in the South-West. The guy is gone.

He’s performed miserably. The economy has tanked. The security architecture has failed. Look, nothing, there are no clear trade, industrial, and investment policies. Everything is going wrong. They are raising lots of revenues, but we don’t know where the revenues are going because there are no results.