Datti Baba-Ahmed was the vice-presidential candidate of the Labour Party (LP) during the 2023 elections. In this interview monitored on Arise Television, he speaks on why Peter Obi joined the African Democratic Congress (ADC) coalition, challenges before the coalition and how to defeat the All Progressives Congress (APC) in 2027, among other issues. ANAYO EZUGWU writes

Both you and Peter Obi have now unquestionably left the Labour Party and are now avowedly in the ADC. Is that right?

I can’t speak for His Excellency Peter Obi. I’ll speak for myself. As for me, I have not left Labour Party. I am considering the coalition which has adopted ADC. Now, don’t consume the excitement and don’t be consumed by the excitement, manage the excitement. Right now, it’s all about excitement.

Understandably so because Nigerians are depressed as much as they are oppressed. So, this excitement can easily consume everyone. What I’m saying is hold back, think critically and think very well.

And before you fire another question, let me just say the opposition is right in all that it’s doing. I agree wholeheartedly in coming together. The principles behind it, the objectives of it, are all correct. But you’re also playing somebody else’s game. This game is Bola Tinubu’s game.

I’m not praising him in any way whatsoever. But everyone must understand the situation as it were. Please be patient. Let me in summary narrate everything. President Muhammadu Buhari, after losing the third time, cried to the world that he’s done with politics, and that’s when it began.

There are internal issues with Buhari, but the external ones are when Tinubu saw the opportunity, to bring him back into the fold after the 2007 Abubakar Atiku presidential bid and 2011 Nuhu Ribadu presidential bid.

Adding the South-West and the Tinubu influences to his existing 12 million votes, it was easy to convince Buhari to come back in any way because he carries a lot of baggage as one who only survive from political donations.

I’m sorry to say that but it is the truth. Buhari just has to contest every election. Ever since the Petroleum Trust Fund (PTF) days after the passing of Sani Abacha, Buhari was removed as head of state without any trade whatsoever.

The narrative they have sold to Nigerians is that the only way to defeat Tinubu or APC is coalition. That is wrong. A clean political party fielding the right candidate will beat APC hands down

So, he and his supporters can only live off a political system. But I’m not hitting at Buhari. Tinubu saw this opportunity, saw the weakness in Buhari, pumped a lot of money, brought his party machinery and then injected his own agenda that with Buhari, he will make name as a kingmaker.

That he made from councillor to governors, and now president. His belief was that if he makes a president, he will also make himself a president.

That was what happened. Coalition now is playing the scripts of Tinubu. I believe in the coalition, don’t get me wrong, but you don’t have to play the game the way Tinubu did.

What is Tinubu’s script and how does that relate to the coalition?

2015 script The script is what I’ve just narrated to you and exactly how he played it. What the opposition is saying, again I repeat, I’m in support of this opposition but there are structural misgivings in the coalition as it were today.

In the build-up to the 2015 elections, Buhari was the distant anointed ab initio. The convener of APC then, Tinubu, already had it that whoever he endorsed was going and after the person, he will come.

This opposition does not have a distant anointed, so there will be a very tight struggle, possibly a not so clean primary struggle for the ticket. Now, the question is: What will the aftermath be?

Your real concern is that there isn’t someone who is clearly going to get the mantle, if you like, presidential leadership in the coalition…

Atiku almost cuts it but it’s not exactly there. Again, I have said that there isn’t a Buhari in the coalition and there isn’t a Tinubu in this coalition. You don’t have one individual that is a Tinubu or a Buhari in the coalition.

Is there something that you’re not entirely satisfied with in Labour Party that you’re currently still in that you see in the coalition?

Not so. You can never be 100 per cent satisfied wherever you are. There are misgivings. I really wanted to bring Peter Obi back to the negotiating table with the leadership of Labour Party. I wanted everything sorted out and I will still do that if I have the opportunity.

So, you’re disappointed because Obi has now said that he’s left. In fact, the Labour Party gave him a 48-hour ultimatum…

You need to be very sure about that if he has left. Now, technically speaking, being in the ADC coalition does not mean you have left your party. Refer to the meeting and the communique issued after that meeting.

It doesn’t say that you have left your own political party and this is a legal point. Labour Party deserves better than being walked away from. Despite all the misgivings, we know the hands that are playing in each and every party. This is a party that scored, by our own count, over 10 million votes.

This is a party that defeated APC and PDP together, irrespective of what the law courts said. All individuals in their own rights do have their followers in certain given measures.

But in any way, you caught me right in my explanation. Maybe, you can bring me back. I am very, very much in sync with Peter Obi. There’s a great deal of excitement, which I think we should not be swept away by in this coalition. You have key players. Peter Obi, I’ll call him first. Rotimi Amaechi, Atiku Abubakar, and Nasir ElRufai.

They’ve come together from diverse backgrounds with a variety of interests. And out of these three, you can imagine that Atiku, Obi, and Amaechi clearly are frontrunners in this. It makes me think, how the contest will be because they are very close in the race. What will be the aftermath of this contest? That’s why I made the example with the Buhari case, who was distant from the pack.

Let’s come back to this unwritten understanding in Nigerian presidential politics – power rotation arrangement. I’m speaking from experience because I was directly involved, and it was part of my campaign speeches in 2022-2023. Did you realise that in 2018-2019, from the two major parties, not a single southerner even bought the form for presidency? What does that say?

Respect and brotherhood. Of course, Atiku contested in PDP, and he won. It was not a question. Buhari was the candidate of APC, and Buhari took the day eventually. In 2022-2023, Atiku was still on the ticket and Obi came out from the South and contested. Amaechi contested and came second in APC, second to Tinubu, who is also from the South.

So, you see three leading candidates. For 2027, the thinking also is that it should be from the South. So, if Atiku picks the ticket, how will Amaechi and Obi take it? Now, for Obi and Atiku, together, they were either rigged out or defeated in 2019. Again, they were either rigged out or defeated in 2023.

You come back together. Hey, guys, who are you playing with? Is this a joke? I think the position of vice president is very big anyway because I wanted to be one, and I was rigged out, but I think Obi should not be a vice president having gotten a disputed 10 million votes in 2023. It is all about a narrative that was sold out to Nigeria very quickly, that to defeat Tinubu, it has to be a coalition.

Coalition is good but when in 2023 we defeated APC and PDP, there was no coalition in Labour Party. The real coalition we need is in the ballot box and how to protect them all the way to declaration. You present a coalition of politicians; you open the flanks for being attacked when APC has worse than what they are saying about ADC.

So, in reality, what you need is a credible candidate There is no law or principle that says that it must be a coalition. Now, you are challenging this narrative, you need to be careful. And if you’re invited to the coalition, like I was, go and at least listen. See what they’re doing. If you agree, continue. If you don’t, what are your alternatives.

But you went there several times, so something must have attracted you to listen to them. What is the guiding principle of this ADC opposition coalition beyond wanting President Tinubu to be removed from office?

There are two questions here. One is for Senator David Mark; what are the principles. Please let him explain those things to you. That is typically a question for the party leaders to answer.

The second question you ask is: What is what’s attracting me to ADC? I still believe in the coalition and I am very likely to work with them because coming together is good, especially to chase out APC.

But you just said that you don’t believe that the only way to get defeat the President is through coalition…

The narrative they have sold to Nigerians is that the only way to defeat Tinubu or APC is coalition. That is wrong. A clean political party fielding the right candidate will beat APC hands down, even in the presence of a coalition. But I was talking to you about the narrative which has gone on that and leading to the excitement we saw.

Do you know that, for example, if Nyesom Wike where to finish destroying the PDP and leave for APC, PDP could go and join this coalition. Do you know that’s possible? And later, if Labour Party decides they’re inspired to join the coalition, they are very well welcome to join. That is why it’s called a coalition.

The position of vice president is very big anyway because I wanted to be one, and I was rigged out, but I think Obi should not be a vice president having gotten a disputed 10 million votes in 2023

And when they join the coalition, then they will say our platform is ADC. And it even sounds better that you go about in your PDP, keep calm, this elephant in the China shop, let him finish destroying the party and move into APC, and then come and say, look, here we are for the coalition.

Labour Party, for any reason, we don’t want to take the risks of letting Tinubu win again. And we think it is safer to join this coalition. They are welcome. It’s even more powerful. So, you see, being in Labour Party or PDP now is really not anti-coalition.

You said that you are willing to work with the coalition; did you feel a bit strange being in the same room and professing to be in the same coalition with so many politicians, who you and Mr Obi felt were a corrosive influence on this country?

Yes; it was simply unbelievable. Believe me, I’m still gasping for air. I mean, with due respect, I remember Nasir El-Rufai dancing around and saying, even if the heavens will come down, Tinubu must be sworn in as president.

I also remember people saying the same APC he worked for saying there a security report against him, which informed why was not confirmed as a minister. I also remember that less than a year later, he went to kneel down and greet again. I’m gasping for air. I don’t understand what is going on.

There are people who have been in government for 24 years. They’ve been out of it for only two years, and they are crying and shouting, we must throw this government out. I have been in parliament only four years and eight months, and I’m as happy as I can be. I believe I can defeat President Tinubu very comfortably.

I have never been in the executive, and so many things. I have never issued any government contract, unless if they want to lie against me. I take people to the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC); they don’t take me to EFCC but we’re in the same room with people that I never imagined will be. So, I doubt what people can do for power.

This underscores why I say we should not be consumed by this excitement because as they say in English, when the chips are down, and it’s time to do primaries, what kind of primaries is Atiku going to do with Amaechi?

We’re in the same coalition but then what kind of primaries are they going to do? I am not going to deceive myself that all is going to be well in this ADC. The beginning of good governance is if you run good primaries.

What are you hoping to get out of this new coalition in terms of political capital because you are a politician?

Every four years, I save my leave allowances. At the end of those four years, I go to buy a certain nomination form. I am not a politician, and I’m saying it again, I am not your typical Nigerian politician but I do politics. For the sake of my country, I can go to war.

What is there in doing politics? People have told me to stop saying it, but I’m saying it. I hate the lies that go around. I hate the deception and all those things that happen because it is not me to do those kinds of things.

So, to your question, I am not a politician, I do politics. What I’m hoping to get is to get the leadership for Nigeria that will solve all our problems, solve the problems of insecurity, be it anybody. I don’t have to call names. I’m ready to support. I’m ready to kill my ambition at any time. My ambition is Nigeria to be good. And I can go back to the classroom.

If Buhari had provided good governance, I would never have bothered myself and there are no signs that Tinubu will ever deliver good governance.

So, the political capital I’m looking for is good governance, peace, prosperity and security for Nigeria. If that is done, life is easier where I am in the classroom. There is a route to get in and that route is terrible.

That route is not good. That route cleans out any morality in most people that are not strong enough to protect themselves. You come out and go through terrible party process, terrible primaries and horrendously expensive general elections. At the end of it all, instead of you being able to transform the system, the system has transformed you.

Don’t say that I’m attacking one individual. What happened to Buhari that his administration became so corrupt? It is because they allowed the political system to consume them and they became the typical corrupt leaders. Insecurity was promoted, profligacy, complacency in everything that you know. Again, these are what we’re suffering today in Nigeria.