Ahead of the 2027 elections, there have been moves and efforts by politicians to project Nigeria in a new direction. Alhaji Sule Lamido, a former Governor of Jigawa State and one time Minister of Foreign Affairs, was at a recent meeting of the Coalition Party, ADC. But in this interview with some journalists in Kano, he talks much about the APC/government, its policies and so many other issues that border on Nigeria’s unity. MUHAMMAD KABIR was there and reports.
A lot of things are happening in the political arena – alignment, realignment and all. We want to find out your next moves as things are changing towards 2027 elections?
Now, let me, from the onset, please appeal to you. In most cases, when I give interviews, in designing headlines, you cut them the way you think they are going to be for the readers. You make your headline very, very catchy, such that what is on the headline will not be in the main story. And that will be very, very misleading.
I gave an interview about a month back on issues of our country. And I was asked about, you know, ADC and the members of the ADC and whom I support. I said, look, I will support anybody who emerges through the process of that ADC convention, whoever it is. And on the Headline, they said, “Lamido Support Peter Obi 2027”, that is misleading, not true. So please, you know, I know you want to sell. You believe in sensation. But at the same time, I also believe in my own kind of personality that, you know, don’t ridicule me. Don’t say what I have not said. So, if you are going to put your catchy headlines, pick them from what I said, not from what you think I should say.
Not from what you think I should say. So please, when you report about this interview, you know, your headline should be able to reflect the inside story. It’s very, very important. Now, this appeal, let me say that I believe that Nigeria is not the normal country we had 25 years ago. There are a lot of problems which are very, very challenging. First, democracy is being challenged.
The way the Federal Government and the President and the APC are using state institutions in destroying democracy. They are crushing opposition through intimidation, through blackmail, through harassment, and also government patronage. The example is former Governor Okowa.
I mean, a very clear example. This is somebody who was PDP’s presidential running mate in the last elections. And from nowhere I know, they started giving him a kind of charge of N1.3 trillion. He was sent to the EFCC. And then, somehow, behind the scenes, he found himself back in the APC. And then, suddenly, there is no more EFCC.
The charges have been buried conveniently. Like, you know, charges on drugs and other things, and certificates. It’s true. They’ve also been buried. So, it means, true to the same of Oshimhole, no matter your level of crime, if you join APC, you will be forgiven. And that’s why, you know, people are now joining the APC. Those who feel they are guilty. It’s very, very important. Which means, you are destroying our democracy.
Pursue the aspect of legality in terms of crime. But then, at the same time, you know, support democracy. Don’t do this in terms of, you know, harassing people. So, today, the Federal Government, the APC government, and Tinubu are using institutions in destroying democracy. And because democracy has been destroyed, therefore, today, there is no security. And there is no stability.
And there is no unity. There is no trust. There is no way a country can forge ahead if the components don’t trust in each other. The components of the country must be able to come together as a country of unity, so they will be able to have stability. But today, Nigeria’s components are not united.
They were able to put division between the North-Central and the whole North. Or the North-West. They will be able to divide between the South-East and South-South, using everything imaginable to be able to create divisions for them to manipulate and exploit for their own political advantage. So, it means our corporate image is now threatened. We don’t have a country which is now united as a federation, where there is common trust, where there is common love for each other, and common respect.
It has now been overtaken by an emperor called Tinubu, who uses power to either give life or death to his opponents. That’s very, very important. And so, that’s why we’re all panicking today. People are saying, what do we do? And in that kind of panic, we’re talking about coalitions or whatever it is. And I’ve been saying, the coalition we had in 2014 was a coalition of organs, which were very organic.
You had the CPC under Buhari. You had ACN under Tinubu. You had ANPP under the ANPP governors. You had PDP, people like the President, speaker, and governors of PDP going into the alliance. Therefore, there are organs with clear leadership, with authority, who can give orders down the line.
Today, what we have is a coalition of individuals. Because the Labour Party, PDP, and others, who are not coming down as institutions of political parties. It’s only the individuals. It’s not like PDP, ADC, SDP, Labour, and others. They’re not coming together. It is individuals coming together. So, the coalition is that of individuals. And that’s why I say, I will not go into it, because to me, the coalition should be able to define the parameters. Why are we coming together? To me, it should be first, for democracy. Two, for unity. Three, for stability. And four, for security. And five, for prosperity. This should be the unifying factor. Not aspiration, or ambition, or vengeance, or revenge. So, I’m PDP. I remain PDP, even though PDP has got some problems. I’m PDP. Because I can walk out of my skin, and crawl in flesh and blood, to be conferred with a smaller skin, called ADC. I cannot.
I’ve a history. I was PDP. I was detained, I was harassed, I was blackmailed. My office was burnt; my house was about to be burnt. My friends, my family, were humiliated and maligned. All for PDP. It also made me a minister, and also a governor. So, I cannot simply renounce my history, my legacy, my heritage, and go into something new. And say, look, today I’m a PDP. I will not do that. But certainly, I’m also willing to go, I’m willing to work for, any arrangement within the PDP, or as a PDP, for a secure Nigeria in 2027. That’s very, very clear. I hope I made the whole background information very clear to you?
Does your position mean that you will do anti-party, by staying in PDP but working for alliance?
I don’t know what anti-partyism is called anti-party. Give me the definition of anti-party, or what do you mean? Fine, those are the questions. I don’t want to forget PDP. What are you talking about? Look, when you are trying to forge a future for understanding, don’t go and unearth the history of the problem. When you say anti-party in 2023, what happened in 2014? Was there no anti-party in 2014? Who are the governors who went into APC to destroy PDP? PDP governments. You know, in Adamawa, in Sokoto, in Kano, in Rivers, in Kwara. These are the governments of PDP. I mean the Executive, the State Assembly, the National Assembly, all of them. So, when you say anti-party, what is the definition of anti-party? Give me a definition.
So, why are you accusing me, as an individual, of being anti-party? Which party? If what you are going through in PDP were to be based on its own rules and constitution, there would be no problem because something has gone wrong. There was something wrong with the PDP. You have people in government who are also PDP, who are saying they are going to vote for Tinubu. I just saw a community today, a community today, from the Osun Caucus of PDP. They call it, I think, the Stakeholders Caucus in Osun State.
Ready to vote for Tinubu they are endorsing the government of Tinubu, but then they are endorsing Tinubu. That’s the PDP government talking. Did you call them and ask them why they do that? Did you call them? Did you call the governor? Did you call him? Why? Call him now. You have someone calling Wike, who is now a minister of APC, saying he is going to work against the PDP. You call that a party or what? You have people like Ortom who are going to vote for Tinubu.
I mean, the party today, when you talk about a party, who is doing it? The people like me who are more concerned about the party, about its history, and its tradition, its legacy, who are trying to defend it, who are saying no to the kind of operations. So, whatever I am doing now, I am fighting to make sure that PDP remains the PDP I knew, the PDP for which I went to jail, the PDP for which my house was burnt, the PDP for which I was called a pastor. Yes, you know, I spoke firmly for it.
They are calling me an anti-party. Are you serious? In 2014, was there a bigger anti-party or a bigger mega anti-party than what happened in 2014? Institutions, governments. Did you ask them? So let us leave what I may call fancy reporting and sensationalism and entertainment about politics. Let’s go into real issues. You are only trying to entertain yourself. I am not here for entertainment.
I am here for real issues, hard core issues about the country Nigeria, which is today not stable, which is not very secure, to which you are not safe, to which you are very, very poor, to which you have been popularised. How much do you earn? Does your fee take you up to the end of the month? Does it? You are talking about an anti-party. Why are you there with your anti-pocket? Are you okay? Are you okay? So fine. Yes. Either in PDP or outside PDP. I said either in PDP or outside PDP.
Yes. What do you think the party needs to do?
It’s a very, very simple thing. Why are we believing the party? Why? Because the party is based on its own rules, constitutions, regulations and traditions. Simple. If the party has been doing the right thing in terms of its own rules and regulations and constitution, it wouldn’t have been a kind of a mess. So let us show this new process of running the party very, very transparently, that the party is a party for Nigeria, not for any individual.
Let us come and make sure that we are all behind the party and do the right thing in the party. I mean, this is a party whereby somebody who is called the party secretary left the party, went and ran for governorship, and came back into the party. And they say because there is no law, we say she is not big. But then, there is the issue of what you call honour. The issue of what you call morality. All right? And more so because people from the South-South, South, you say look, we want a replacement.
Haven’t they? They met. You know, Jim Nwobodo, Ben Obi, Achike Udenwa; they all met, you know, a South-South caucus. They say ‘look, this is the moment. We want a secretary of the party from our zone. And the party will not implement it. They say because there is a court order. I mean, you replace somebody. You won’t sack him. You go to court and say you can’t sack me.
I must work for you. And therefore, because you can’t sack him. Why is he working for you? You don’t want him. So, you see, it’s because the party lacks the courage to do what is right. So, the only, you know, you can say, I mean, the PDP has got a history. I mean, the first chairman, I don’t know who he was. And then, so it means, let them go into history and see how the party ran in the first foundation. What was the vision of the founding father in 1998 when it was being founded? What was the dream? What was the vision? What were the issues? How were they resolved afterwards? How did it feel with the election? After the election, how was the PDP able to restore Nigeria within the committee of the nations? Apart from being a parasite, it was a country not to be reckoned with.
As a force, a leader of the black race, a key player in the world stage. What happened? Under Obasanjo and also under Jonathan? So, we’ve got a very clear history of what is called a commitment to the country of Nigeria by the PDP leadership and PDP governments. Of course, there have been some kind of, you know, I mean, we can’t be perfect. But obviously, we are the best. Now, when we have taken over, how better for it? Fine. If somebody, even though not Daniel, but based on what he said and what he did, you could see it.
And now it was there. So, is Nigeria better off than we were under PDP, than we were under APC? No, we are not. We should be honest. It’s about the country of Nigeria. Leave the emotions of religion, you know, and the zone, and the tribes, and the city, you know. Look at the country of which you are going into, which you are going to leave behind because you are going to the future now.
What is the future for Nigeria? Your own grand grandchildren in the future. It will be the future. This is more important. So, PDP can come back if they do the right thing, and they know what’s right. But you can’t get people like Autumn, and the governor of Osho, who are saying they are PDP, but they are working for Tinubu. It doesn’t make sense. So if you say I’m doing anti-party, I will do anti-party to build Nigeria, not destroy Nigeria. So I say anything, either from within PDP or outside PDP, to save Nigeria, I will do it. But I’m a hard-core PDP. I’m PDP by flesh, and blood, and tomorrow, and bones, and by breath, and by soul. And only PDP. He came late.
The constitution review process by the National Assembly is underway. What is your view about it? It went into governors’ hearings and came up with a proposal of 12 states for Nigeria. You were a two-time governor of the Jigawa State…Do we need additional states? And do you think that the process is easy now that we are in that situation?
The desire for new states. The agitation is legitimate. But then, the process and the procedure must be anchored on some real issues of the country in terms of what I’m talking about. The current National Assembly, with all of them, there are more demanding things for them to do, really, than creating states. For instance, what have they done to make sure they know that they fund they sent to institutions in terms of our security? What have they done? Were they properly funded? How were the oversight functions? I saw Adam Oshiomhole demanding that, you know, they have oversight over the function of the military in terms of their own spending and other things. And they said, Oshiomhole said so, in a committee.
Yes. You see, I saw Adams Oshiomhole in a committee, said they know that they need to monitor military spending. They should be part of how are they doing it. And then the House, they suddenly refused to accept that. So, it means, there are issues which are more pressing, which are more demanding. You know? The issue of security, the issue of poverty, the issue of hunger, the issue of the division between land and house.
We need to solve our problems of security, our economic situation, our poverty, our hunger, our national unity, our cohesion as a country. If we find no problem. So, there are more demanding issues today than the country today is balkanized. The components, you know, have lost faith in each other. By the components, we’re talking about North and South. We’re talking about Muslim-Muslim; we’re talking about Christians saying ‘no.’ I mean, there are so many issues which tear us apart.
Above all, you know, there’s insecurity. Why? You are not very sure you are safe or not; wherever you are. And then, of course, (the issue of) poverty and hunger. So, there should be some priorities. But somehow, if this issue of security will solve this problem, I have no problem. That’s the message that we need. So, now we have a problem of lack of unity, democracy, poverty, insecurity, and hunger. I have no problem.
A former governor of Kano State and the presidential candidate of NNPP, Senator Rabiu Musa Kwankwaso, visited President Tinubu at Aso Rock and he had a discussion. Do you entertain fears?
All this is very personal; it’s about Kwankwaso, is it a crime for Kwankwaso to go and see Tinubu? Is it a crime? Is it a crime? I’m asking you. What I’m saying, do you think it’s a crime for Kwankwaso to go and see President Tinubu? Anywhere? So, fine, therefore, it’s all right. Go to him and ask What did you discuss? Go to him and he’ll tell you. So, please, you know, when I talk about personalities, you know, they have rights. And that’s what’s important. So, I’m not going to talk about Kwankwaso going to meet you, go to Tinubu, or Peter Obi or Rotimi Amaechi.
