Sule Lamido is a former Governor of Jigawa State and ex-Minister of Foreign Affairs. In this interview monitored on Arise Television, he speaks on the political calculations across political parties ahead of the 2027 general election and President Bola Tinubu’s administration, among other issues, ANAYO EZUGWU writes

Are you part of the ongoing coalition by the opposition parties in the country?

I’ll try to decipher what you are asking me. However, I am part of any arrangement, no matter by whatever nomenclature or name, to remove the current government of incompetency, of insecurity, of dividing Nigeria between North and South, out of power. I’ll go into any arrangement for that purpose. What I’m saying is this: What you see, don’t panic. I’m not going to keep on panicking over issues.

I don’t panic; I work with my eyes wide open. In Nigeria today; we’ve got a government which is dividing Nigerians along North and South, dividing Nigerians along ethnic lines, and also using institutions of the state in manipulating and controlling and coercing the opposition.

For instance, I just saw a programme now of the governor of Akwa Ibom State and when I saw him speak, I just pitied him, because he’s somebody who two years ago was unknown in Nigeria, unknown by anybody, who was then honoured and dignified by PDP and made a governor. I mean, renouncing his own history, his own tradition, his own legacy. It’s just a pity.

So, to me, coming from the old generation, I’m not really frightened by the way the current generation is moving around. So, to me, I’ll be part of any arrangement of any chemistry, any configuration, whatever you may call it, if it’s going to move this government out of power, because the government for the first time in Nigeria is now a government not for Nigerians, but then for the political party.

The entire government today in Nigeria is not for Nigerians, it’s for the political party. I mean, how do you imagine the president holding the political party function of the APC in the villa, a very sacred place in the centre of Nigerian power for all Nigerians? So, you could see how low we have sunk.

You can see how the country has really gone under Tinubu. So, again, I will be part of any arrangement that is going to make sure this party is flushed out of power.

What sense do you make of President Tinubu’s Democracy Day speech vis a vis Tinubu’s benchmark of his contributions to democracy and fighting the military, considering what we are witnessing now?

You see, I feel highly entertained by Tinubu’s rhetoric and the way he’s dramatizing his own role in Nigeria’s democracy. Luckily, we’re all alive. We’re all there. We all, you know, participated in that particular sphere of politics. I was in the middle of it.

Tinubu became relevant and noticeable after Abuja took over government. Before then, he was in the Senate and I was the secretary of the party.

And with all respect to him, he was part of those people who were supporting General Ibrahim Babangida’s annulment of June 12. He was part of it; his mother, Alhaja Abibat Mogadji, was organising Lagos market women to come to Abuja to pledge support for Babangida.

We have a country being run by an emperor, who has no level to how far he can go down. He can swing to any level so long as he attains what he wants

I’m saying this because it’s simply history. I mean no harm. I don’t mean to embarrass him. But you see, he was actively handing gloves to Babangida. Now, when Babangida saw the fact that he was having a problem with the party, he went to the National Assembly to address them.

One infamous speech was they are trying to incite you. It’s you they are against. Tinubu was there and Iyorchia Ayu became very firm and straight on the issue of June 12.

He called a meeting, being the only senior elected person in government at that time, the Senate President. He convened a meeting in Benin, Edo State, with the governor, where we went there and reaffirmed our commitment to June 12. Babangida was so angry with Ayu. Ayu came, but he removed him and put another person.

He put him there so that they can be aligned to Babangida’s political kind of machinations. So, when Tinubu today, after being a president, decided to rewrite history,trying to maybe deconstruct history and then rewrite it, then it is very amusing because he was part of the Babangida support of June 12.

It was only when General Sani Abacha took over government that Tinubu became a so-called activist of June 12. Not only him, all those who are talking about June 12 in NADECO, I mean no harm and no disrespect. I’m simply saying what happened during that time.

All of them; those who were in National Democratic Coalition (NADECO); where were they on June 11?

They were not part of June 12 campaign. They were not part of June 12 activities. What were they doing? They were only there because most of them were saying, would they sit down because they know they won’t work out. So, when MKO Abiola won the election and after the annulment, they were all very passive, but suddenly, after Abacha came on board, removing Chief Ernest Shonekan, they became activists.

They formed NADECO, which was a post-election formation. NADECO was something which was formed to fight Abacha. Not to fight for democracy, not to fight for June 12. So, whatever Tinubu is doing today is simply reconstructing history the way it is going to fit his own political interests. But obviously, he was a major supporter of Babangida.

You can ask Babangida. So, when you talk about only June 12; who are those characters, they ran away and we stayed behind. We fought Abacha. I was detained because of my fight with Abacha. All of us, Adamu Ciroma, Bola Ige, Iyorchia Ayu, and many others.

We fought Abacha because we were willing to risk our lives. Tinubu ran away. He was not in the country. He only came back after the coast was very clear. So, what I’m saying is that all those advocates of June 12, they were more concerned with the bath water than the baby. They were more concerned because most of them were at the end of the meal. When the product was being processed, they simply picked up the product.

The process which produced the product, they were not there. To them, it was not about the victor, but about the victory more than anything else. NADECO was more concerned with the victory than the victor. As far as they were concerned, they were trying to hang on to their own kind of writing to reinvent history in Nigeria. So, I feel embarrassed over the way the president is talking. Honestly.

Ask anybody. Ask Ayu and Jerry Gana. They were all there. What is happening today in Nigeria is simply something very laughable. People, who have no political pedigree, people who have no political history and who are not known as fighters, are now at the forefront fighting for Nigeria’s democracy. It’s so laughable.

You said you were laughing when Governor Umo Eno was speaking. If I remember correctly, there was a time that you, alongside other governors of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), switched camps. Isn’t that the same thing that Eno and people like Sheriff Oborevwori are doing now?

Maybe, I’m too young to understand history. But then, going into history, you know that the clash in PDP in 2014 was purely internal.

We were working against what was happening in the party under Alhaji Bamanga Tukur and President Goodluck Jonathan. We insisted that on running the party based on our own rules and regulations. We maintained that we should not create any impression for anybody to take advantage.

We were fighting for internal democracy in the PDP. But at that time, the All Progressives Congress (APC) was being formed and they tried to use the crisis in PDP to leverage support. And I said, no, look, we are fighting within our party to install more internal democracy.

However, if we, the governors, some of us, if you feel that you want to leave the party and join APC, fair enough, do what we did in 1983. In 1983, when there was a crisis in Peoples Redemption Party (PRP), and we left the PRP to join the National Party of Nigeria (NPP) to run for elections. I resigned because I said there is no way I can use the fortune of PRP which produced me because at the election of PRP, nobody knew Sule Lamido.

Nobody knew Abubakar Rimi. We were unknown and, you know, unnoticed. It was the PRP and Malam Aminu Kano’s character and history that facilitated our election, so if we are going to leave his party, it’s only fair we surrender to him. We relinquished everything about PRP and went to another political party.

That’s what we did. Rimi also resigned from office as a governor of the state because there’s something called character and principle in us. In 2014, I said, look, all the governors, if we are going to leave the PDP, let’s Lamido resign our offices and go and find our fortune somewhere in APC. But I cannot take the PDP fame, the PDP investment, the PDP treasure, the PDP legacy, and then use it to fight them in the opposition. And those who left the party and went to APC, most of them came back.

So, because today we have no political character or principle, that’s why we have this kind of problem. Look at Governor Eno; I mean, who knew him before now? Nobody knew him. Today, people are using public office to promote their own interests. But if you remove that office from him, he’ll become nobody in Akwa Ibom.

So, what I’m saying, if there’s something called character and honour, and the principle in politics; if people are going to change their political party, they should please relinquish whatever that party gave them, and a new party join as individuals and as ordinary people. But when you carry the aura, the authority, the paraphernalia of office into opposition, to fight what made you, it is utterly immoral.

So, during our own time, I said if we are leaving the PDP, let us resign. When they fail to so, I said I’m not going. I was willing to resign as a governor of Jigawa State if I’m going to join APC but my colleagues said they will not resign. So, today we’ve got politics where there is no character, where there is no depth, where there is no honour. That’s the problem.

People who have no political pedigree, people who have no political history and who are not known as fighters, are now at the forefront fighting for Nigeria’s democracy. It’s so laughable

With what is happening over the coalition; is PDP dead?

PDP is not dead because it cannot die. PDP is in APC. Would you say Godswill Akpabio is dead. Isn’t he PDP? This man, they call Eno. Isn’t he PDP? So, there is no APC and there is no PDP. We are not dead. We are everywhere. That’s why people are coming to us. In the entire APCs, only Adams Oshiomhole and Tinubu are APC.

All others are PDP. I mean, the National Chairman of APC, Abdullahi Ganduje was in PDP before joining APC. Anybody today in APC is PDP. So, we cannot be dead, because if we are dead, then the APC is dead.

In 2023 you voted for a Northern presidential candidate; would you repeat the same in 2027?

Please, with all respect, don’t bring dichotomy of North and South into my politics. You know me very well, I don’t believe in North or South. I believe in Nigeria, because Nigeria has given me everything. So, when I was voting in 2023, I was voting for PDP, not for Atiku. PDP is a Nigerian party.

Go to my history; I voted for Nnamdi Azikiwe in 1983. I voted for MKO Abiola against Bashir Tofa. So, I’ve been consistent. It is you who is simply using today’s temperature to judge yesterday and know that your logic is flawed.

Some people are saying that the formation of All Democratic Alliance (ADA), a coalition of opposition political parties is coming is too late and that it would be difficult for the party to mobilize and give APC a run for its money. Do you think so? Why are we coming to alliance? It’s very important because there was alliance in 2013, which produced President Muhammadu Buhari. Was Nigeria better off in that alliance?

The same alliance produced Tinubu; are we better off? So, to me, alliance should be based on issues about the country – insecurity, unity and prosperity. To me, whatever we do, should be done through Nigeria, not through a candidate. Nigeria should be run through Nigeria.

We should not have a candidate who will put Nigeria behind and leave Nigeria. So, to me, the coalition I’m talking about is not similar to what we had in 2013; a coalition of anger, a coalition of revenge, a coalition of hatred, a coalition of nothing but ambition.

That’s what we had in 2013, and that’s why the country did not gain out of it, because the entire country was left behind. So, what I’m saying. We are going to coalition now, but then the coalition should be based on some issues which the APC have brought on board.

Therefore, national unity is very important, because today Tinubu is using his office to divide us into North and South using coercion, blackmail, like they did to ex-Governor Ifeanyi Okowa. We have a country being run by an emperor, who has no level to how far he can go down. He can swing to any level so long as he attains what he wants.

So, Tinubu is not about Yoruba. Tinubu is about himself alone, his own interest, and whoever is going to do his bidding, he’ll bring him. I’ve been saying so. It’s not about Yoruba. All the Yoruba in government today are his boys and who are going to do his bidding, no more, no less.

Therefore, if a Yoruba man is not ready to do his bidding, he’s willing to go and bring somebody from the SouthSouth, South-East, or even from the North, so long as they are going to do his bidding. So, Tinubu is behaving like the emperor he is. And unfortunately, he used the psychology and mentality of governing Lagos to govern Nigeria.

He came from a very tiny state called Lagos, applying the same philosophy, which means privatizing the country, making it personal, and an industry for himself. That’s the problem we’re facing and that’s why the issue of national unity, economy and security, are important.

What do you make of the security situation in the country?

What was it in 2013 under President Jonathan? And when APC came, what were the issues they raised? They talked about security in 2014. They talked about economy; they talked about corruption. These were the issues they used to hoodwink Nigerians. Fair enough, now we’re flushed out of government. Jonathan lost the election.

Now we have today St. Tinubu and St. Buhari as our leaders. It’s all ruse. So, the issue they propagated in 2014 are the issues they failed to address, and they should know that they even compounded the issues.