Hon. Ikenga Ugochinyere is the member representing Ideato federal constituency of Imo State in the House of Representatives. In this interview, he speaks on the ongoing amendment of the 1999 Constitution and the bill for all elections to be held the same day, among other issues. ANAYO EZUGWU writes

Give us more details of these bills that you’ve proposed that have scaled second reading. A number of them sound impressive and it suggests a lot of hard work… It’s not just me; most of them have between 30 and 40 members of the House co-sponsoring with me.

But the beautiful thing is that the leadership of the House set the tone for what is happening as over 133 bills have crossed second reading. Each of them has far-reaching implications on our democracy, constitutional governance, quest for economic development and so on.

Because they said time is part of our legislative agenda, the speaker, Tajudden Abbas and his deputy, Benjamin Kalu, said this whole week is going to be about constitutional amendment, so that we can move everything to the constitutional amendment committee for them to fine-tune it and bring it back for the final stage. That was the opportunity that gave us room to bring up this consideration.

Some of them have been there for one year or thereabout but the key one, as you said, is the one to amend the constitution to make provision for simultaneous conduct of elections into offices of the president, vice-president, governor, Senate, House of Representatives, state Assembly and so on in one day.

The reason is very simple; we have tried different forms and systems and our election credibility has not improved. We strongly believe that we can reduce the cost of election because we normally have the presidential and National Assembly the same day. We’re just adding two, the governorship and the states Assembly.

So, the it is the same ad hoc staff, the same electoral money, just the ballot paper is what is going to change and the result sheet. And again, one of the problems we are facing is voter apathy caused by people losing confidence in the electoral process over the years.

So, if we have all elections in one day, supporters of states Assembly candidates, supporters of National Assembly candidates, supporters of presidential candidates and supporters of governorship candidates are going to troop out to vote.

In that case, we are going to have a large turnout of voters. In terms of election security, and agent issues, when you have agents for the various elective offices, that will be about 20 people at a polling unit.

So, we may be having a situation whereby the Hon. Ikenga Ugochinyere is the member representing Ideato federal constituency of Imo State in the House of Representatives.  usual voter apathy and lack of agents at the polling units that allow some political thugs to start running up and down, will be a thing of the past because you’re going to have hundreds of people turning out in each polling unit.

Another beautiful aspect of it is that there’s one aspect of our election that has always faced challenges, which is the credibility of accreditation.

You see strange and what I call a criminal situation where somebody that ran for governorship will have 100,000 accredited voters and somebody that ran for Senate will now have maybe something like 200,000 accredited voters. What does that tell you? It means that people keep changing the election figures, they keep changing the accreditation.

But if you have all the elections in one day, you now have a situation whereby once the state Assembly results are announced, the candidate will do everything possible to get his result. Once the result is announced and says the state Assembly for a particular LGA is 10,000, that means that the result for the presidency, for the Senate and governorship of that LGA, cannot exceed 10,000.

For litigation purposes, if you have announced the result for the state Assembly and given the person the result sheet, the person that ran for House of Representatives cannot have 10,000 from a polling unit that the candidate had 5,000 as accreditation.

The political players, INEC and the judiciary are all complicit in one way or the other in what has made our electoral process not to be as perfect as we desire

That will expose the fraudulent practices of indiscriminate change of the accreditation process. The bill has provisions on the issue of mandatory transmission of election results and also using the electronic transmission system as the basis for determining dispute.

At times, you have a situation whereby the BVAS machine is showing 5,000 accredited voters, while somebody is parading a result that is also showing 20,000. This kind of situation will not happen because the result from the BVAS will be used for determining that dispute.

And more importantly, the issue of assessing the satisfactory copy for litigation, is that people will continue to delay the legal department, to go back and forth. There is a mandatory provision that within 14 days, information must be made available and for the person that should provide it, failure to do so will attract a jail term.

How much is this likely to be a challenge holding all these elections on the same day from the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) point of view and did you consult the commission before you put your bill together?

All these things are proposals, which have gone past a second reading, and they will go to the committee stage and public hearing, during which stakeholders like INEC are going to make input. But the most important thing is that we are trying to find what will work best for the country.

The political players, INEC and the judiciary are all complicit in one way or the other in what has made our electoral process not to be as perfect as we desire.

That’s why, if you watch, there’s also a provision in the bills that some of my colleagues also sponsored that went through a second reading, putting a timeline for decisions on election disputes before swearing-in the respective winners into office.

You have timelines that have to do with the relevant publications and time lines of what INEC is supposed to do. Also, there’s a provision that gives powers to the federal high court to get involved in electoral offences, so that people who have fallen short of the law are going to be dealt with.

There’s also a proposal from people about how we can make INEC more neutral in terms of whether should we go back to the situation we used to have before, where INEC staff are the returning officers, and INEC staff are the collation officers.

Instead of trying to cure the lapses of that era, we brought in lecturers who have shown to be, with all due respect to them, worse than the situation we used to have with INEC. Where lecturers and professors announce results that do not tally with accreditations. Some even announce results even when the election is still going on.

Should we not go back, so that INEC staff can be held accountable in the collation process instead of giving it to lecturers, who just come and announce whatever they like and then run away from the polling unit. All these things are aimed at finding what is best for the country and it’s not cast on stone. It’s subject to amendment as we go forward.

Ultimately it is about electoral reform which this country needs…

It’s not just only electoral reform that we are pushing right now; we are also pushing economic reforms. Nigeria is a politically interesting country whereby politics comes first before every other discussion.

So, people are more interested in these electoral reforms and I must be honest with you that Nigerians are expecting a lot to come out from us as it has to do with electoral reform. They want mandatory transmission of election results.

They want also a situation whereby there will be stiff punishment for anybody that announces a figure that does not allay with the actual votes. They want a situation whereby those who get involved in those offences are punished, and tried, without anybody escaping it. And they want a situation whereby their votes will count.

And that is why we’re saying. How do we make the accreditation process transparent apart from the safeguard we are putting? Let everybody come out on the same day. You talk ed about the logistics issue. It’s the same issue. What you are carrying, is an extra two ballot papers for the governorship and the state Assembly elections.

Most countries, including Indonesia that have bigger population and bigger elections do these elections in one day. And as we advance further with technology, these things can be handled. If these materials, in terms of distribution, have been very effective, you will agree with me, just that politicians have a way of messing it up along the line.

But these materials, particularly nonsensitive ones, arive the polling units a day before elections. So, if they can get there, then I don’t see any reason why we should not be able to deploy them to the polling units.

Are you concerned about people who are not supportive of this and what are you going to do to get it pass that axis of resistance? Of course, like I told you, it’s politics. When people see that, they say, okay, this proposal, is it going to help our candidate to win or lose?

And when they feel that it cannot help their candidate to win, they start opposing it. But like I said before, most Nigerians want that, which is best for everybody.

Most lawmakers agree, especially lawmakers of the 10th Assembly, that Nigerians want this electoral reform, and that we should give them something different, something that is stronger, something that can raise the integrity of the electoral process.

And we’re talking to our colleagues, and talking to stakeholders. In the days ahead, we’ll continue that advocacy, for them to see why we should take this approach.

Among other numerous suggestions that are already coming, like I told you, it was our 133 Constitutional Amendment bills, that has passed second reading. That shows that the lawmakers are desirous of seeing things change for the better.

Two of your bills seeking to amend the constitution to limit the period that any individual can serve as president from two terms of four years each to a single six-year term, and another seeking an amendment for the rotation of the presidency across the six geopolitical zones were rejected. Are you going to represent them?

We have to represent them. You can see that the single-day election has already scaled through because we’re doing a lot of work, talking to our colleagues, to see why this is the best approach.

That for devolution of power also scaled second reading. That is very important because people have been agitating on issues of resource control. So, it’s high time we get to the table to talk about how to move some of these resource issues from the exclusive list to the concurrent list, so that states can be involved.

That will help in economic development; issues of mines, oil fields, gas, water resources, and so on. We go all over the world and we see what they do in North Dakota with the oil and the taxes they pay to the centre.

We see all sorts of things that have helped in bringing accelerated development. When we come here, because people want to be addicted to the old order, they don’t want to change.

We noticed that one of your bills is dealing with a form of economic restructuring because there is a lot of argument about restructuring…

The political reforms over the years have all dwelt on it. They always bring massive crises between the North and the South. But the world is changing, the world is dynamic. It’s time we get to the table to talk about these issues of resource control, so that it can help in accelerated development.

Good a thing that they allowed it to pass the second rating, and get into the critical stage, which is the third, where everybody will now be sitting on a roundtable to look at the content of these resource control issues.

It’s like when you see a state governor being unable to construct basic road infrastructure that can help increase growth and economic activity just because they say it’s a federal road. We now see it all over the world. We don’t have that kind of situation.

The federal government focuses on those trunk A roads that connect states and all that. On intrastate roads that are going to benefit the people of a particular state; why do we need to wait for the federal government? So, that’s why we’re trying to change that.

Any road other than trunk A should be moved to concurrent list, so that states can be able to do it for the benefit of their people. That is why in the bill for devolution of power, we’re also seeking to see how we can reduce the amount of money that goes to the federal government.

As a relative newcomer to the House, how did you get up there with all these bills and this kind of almost revolutionary laws that you’re trying to push through?

I think first of all, maybe my background as an advocate for good governance and constitutional reform over the years, and also as a lawyer gave me some background.

And then coming into the House, the 10th House set a legislative agenda that focuses on constitutional reforms, and every member should take that opportunity to be able to make suggestions on key reforms that can help to move the country forward.

And that’s not just me. You saw some of my colleagues who are pushing for state police and local government police and their bill also scaled second reading. You have the one on Supreme Court reforms that can expand the membership of the Supreme Court.

Instead of the number we have now, 16 or 18, that makes cases to stay there for years, we can expand the membership, so that we can have more judges at the Supreme Court level to be able to administer justice. You saw the one by the deputy speaker, which focuses on putting for the first time, a timeline for criminal and civil cases.

It should scare you that the national secretary of an opposition party proudly tells you that his leader is a minister in APC government

You see people who are facing corruption or murder cases been in prison for 20 years. It’s so ridiculous. Nowhere in the world would this happen. That bill is saying, let’s put a timeline in which the first trial court and the appellate court can finish a criminal case.

At times people commit crimes in Nigeria, saying after all you take adjournment and you stay 20 or 30 years, you may even die before the trial ends. But when you know that it takes 300 days to start from beginning to the end, you have to be very careful because you’re going to go to jail.

Also, we want the Court of Appeal to have the jurisdiction to end issues of governorship election dispute, so that we don’t disturb the Supreme Court with those issues, just to help in making the justice system more efficient.

On the issue judges, which is very important, more judges have not been able to have the kind of independence they need because of interference by the executive. So, they are trying to move that power to the Nigerian Judicial Council (NJC), so that they can deal with the judges more independently.

You also sponsored the South East Development Commission Bill. All this has boosted your profile as a lawmaker, hasn’t it?

No. I’m a co-sponsor. I co-sponsored it with the deputy speaker. I think it starts with first of all, like I always said, the independence of a candidate. I pride myself as an independent candidate, that my victory was solely rooted in the peoples’ support and God that made it possible.

So, I’m not controlled by any individual except the people of Ideato and my God and my conscience. That gave me the freedom needed for me to pursue these aggressive constitutional reforms that I believe so much in.

So, if a candidate emerges through a process that is not transparent or owes allegiance to somebody whose interest is different from that of the people, you will have a problem with performance. But I don’t have any reason to have a problem with performance because I was in exile when the people elected me. I have no other reason than to do this thing that I’m doing.

But you’ve had problems with your party, with talks of expelling you over accusations of gross indiscipline, insubordination and anti-party activities, but you survived…

I think it’s still the same problem. I’m talking about the Nigerian nation, where some people think that we should continue to do things the old way. It’s a very simple issue.

The party’s constitution made provision that in the absence of the national chairman, or when he’s removed, the zone from which the former chairman originated should act as chairman. So, Umar Damagun ought not to be paraded as national chairman of PDP.

It’s a very simple truth, and I don’t know how to paint it. The North Centre is supposed to have produced the national chairman. And now, he had been in that position for almost two years, supported by a national secretary, Samuel Anyanwu, who ran for a governorship election and our provision was very clear that you are deemed to have resigned as national secretary.

After running the election and losing, he came back and said he was national secretary when the South-East zone, based on the recommendation of the National Working Committee (NWC), had already appointed Sunday Ude-Okoye as national secretary.

So, I said Anyanwu has no business also parading himself as secretary. And again, he makes it so obvious that his allegiance is to Nyesom Wike, who is working in the All Progressives Congress (APC) government as a minister.

Every PDP member should be so scared of that. It is just like the national secretary of the Republican Party telling you that he’s loyal to the Democratic Party minister.

It should scare you that the national secretary of an opposition party proudly tells you that his leader is a minister in APC government and that nobody can stop him from doing what the man wants.

And then that means if the man has said that he’s working for the government, in that case, he’s also working for the ruling party. So, the battle is about this sense that we have people who don’t want to be dissent in their policies that allow the North Central to take the position and allow Ude-Okoye to continue to function.

We have gone up to the Supreme Court, and the apex court has affirmed the supremacy of the party in its judgement. That means whatever the party says is final. Out of 18 members of the NWC, 14 believe that the nonsense that Anyanwu and Damagun are doing should stop.

So, we enjoy the majority at every given time as I speak to you, but they keep obtaining injunctions and orders of the court from the same judges at the federal high court in strange rulings that keep changing our judicial and political system, left, right, and centre.

They will pick somebody from APC in Rivers State and make a state chapter chairman of the PDP because that’s what Wike wants. I don’t belong to that class that can see those things, and because I want to survive in politics, I will not speak in this position like I told you.

I’ve already left. I was in exile when they elected me, so if it was a do-or-die, I would have been there killing myself. So, the people gave me this mandate. Any day they want to take the mandate; I don’t have any problem with it. I’ll continue my advocacy.

How do you get past all the attacks on your home and threats to your life and still come out on top of the pecking order as a lawmaker?

As I said, it is about the love of the people, Everyday, I see people coming and saying, we are proud of what you’re doing. We love what you’re doing, same in Ideato and so on.

So, those things keep me going because it is a sacrifice that one has to make. I lost family members, especially my uncle who was beheaded when they couldn’t get at me and I ran into exile. So, we didn’t even know we were going to survive. And then we saw the second and third attempts.