Ali Ndume is the senator representing Borno South Senatorial District. In this interview monitored on Arise Television, he speaks on alleged funding of Boko Haram by United States Agency for International Development (USAID), and the role of non-governmental organisations in the fight against insurgency, ANAYO EZUGWU reports
Why did you move the motion on the urgent need to investigate alleged funding of Boko Haram by USAID?
It is because as the motion says and as a Nigerian, I know the history of Boko Haram and the level of destruction and devastation that they made us go through. Even now, it’s still ongoing, because there are remnants of Boko Haram, while a new one that is emerging in the North-West is called Lakurawa.
USAID is a big department in the United States established to help other countries but the way they operate makes us to be suspicious in the sense that they don’t allow for oversight.
And hey go to places where nobody goes. They also do certain things in secret and that becomes worrisome. This is somebody that is coming under the pretext of helping you where you’re in need but you can’t question them.
Even if their activities are suspicious, you don’t even have the right to look into it. So, this is a kind of opportunity for us to investigate the agency since the U.S. itself has virtually closed down USAID because of what Scott Perry said, alleging that they are misusing the money.
I think the Donald Trump administration based its action is on what it called war against waste because it feels that the US is spending money where it is not supposed to, and in fact, creating more problems for the people that they are supposed to help.
So that’s why I said that it is the time for the Nigerian side, especially the National Assembly and the Federal Government, to be interested and also launch investigation to find out the veracity of such allegation for us to know what to do.
On the strength of your motion, what has the Senate resolved to do and how did your colleagues react to it?
Well, I had two prayers in the motion initially, and that is that the Federal Government should constitute an inter ministerial committee, comprising the ministries of Defence, Interior and Foreign Affairs as well as the headship of the arm forces and other security agencies.
That is on the part of the Federal Government. On the part of the Senate; my second prayer was that an ad hoc committee comprising the chairman and vice chairman of the committees on Judiciary, Human Rights and Legal Matters, Defence, Army, Navy, Air Force, National Security and Intelligence, Police and Foreign Affairs should liaise with the relevant authorities to ascertain the veracity of such allegation.
But the Senate, in its wisdom, said it is better to compress the prayers to one, and that is to invite all the heads of the security agencies concerned, led by the NSA, to come before the Senate in a closed session to discuss and to do a kind of investigation or hearing and to find out what transpired because they are supposed to know.
Recall that the Defence Intelligence Agency has complained. Even the Borno State government complained at a time over the secretive activities of these agencies, not only USAID but other NGOs operating in the North-East.
When you say secretive activities, what do you mean?
I mean, in Borno, even as a senator, I don’t just drive my car from Maiduguri down from the airport and go straight to Goza. I have to tell the security agencies. I can tell you that in the theatre, for example, you can’t go there now.
Nigeria has that resource and the capacity that we don’t need to be given aid. We are supposed to be giving out aids to other countries by now
You can’t go there unless you are ready to risk your life. As the NGOs are saying, they operate in those areas without arms and without being harmed by the insurgents. They go there mostly to also help the insurgents because they don’t call them terrorists.
They call them non-state actors. If you call somebody non-state actors, it means you have given him recognition because they work in between the non-state actors, as you call them, and the victims.
So, the potential for overlap is very easy. Not only overlap but the position they took in the first place is not supposed to be. But as I said and let me give you an example, the Red Cross goes to where Boko Haram is and give them medication and supplies.
You are looking at it from a normal perspective but the whole world including the United Nations has designated Boko Haram as a terrorist organisation. Why call them another name; non-state actors.? I don’t understand that.
These NGOs, some of them, not all, go as far as taking requirements or essentials or needs of the terrorists to their locations, which they don’t even disclose to the Nigerian security agencies that are fighting the terrorists because they call them non-state actors.
Assuming it’s a war going in between two, and then the Red Cross comes in to help in the period of war, then you don’t support this side or the other side. But these are designated as terrorist organisations.
Why do you give help to a terrorist? That’s the question. Journalists, as I said, can’t go there. The only thing that we work with, or you work with, is what they release from their end.
As a ranking senator from Borno State, you must be privy to some inside information from the intelligence services. What do you know so far about how Boko Haram funds its activities?
That’s what even the intelligence agencies are questioning. To be specific, recently, the Chief of Defence Staff was asking this question, and he was saying that they are wondering how these people get their weapons, and how they get money.
I cannot speak for the CDS but generally, let me tell you, the Nigerian armed forces and security agencies are handicapped in the sense that they don’t have the backing or the right to even question the activities of this international organisations.
The same applies to the Federal Government because these NGOs and international organisations come into this country directly without reporting to the Ministry of Humanitarian Affairs and without being oversighted by anybody. That is because that’s what they want.
That’s the precondition for coming in to help the country and that’s the way they operate. I guess, that is why they are not calling Boko Haram or agreeing that this is a terrorist organisation. It’s not that the Nigerian security agencies don’t have this information but it will come out.
So, this is the right opportunity and this motion that I brought, hopefully, will unveil the hidden things going on through investigation.
We are doing a closed-door hearing with them, so they will be able to come out to tell the Senate exactly what they suspect.
They have a lot of information and the CDS is bold enough. I remember an incident, the Nigerian Army, through their intelligence, got the information they are doing that they were engaged in funny things, they raided the place, and the whole world was saying how can you do that.
You mentioned that the Nigerian Army raided USAID offices in Maiduguri. Why was the office raided and what emerged from that raid?
The information they got, which I don’t have complete, is that they are collaborating with the terrorists, and in fact, they thought that some of them are even being housed when they sneak into Maiduguri, and that agency provides them cover.
What did the raid discover?
Well, that’s what you are supposed to ask the soldiers or the CDS. That was what happened then and the limited information we had is that these people are suspecting that they are doing funny things. I can’t say that the army didn’t find anything, they must have found something.
The one that I know is that the Borno State government raided the place too, when they got intelligence that one of the NGOs was training their staff or some people on how to use guns.
And I begin to wonder if these are people on the vehicles that they use, draw AK47s and cross them. That means no AK-47 yet they are training people how to use AK47.
How much of a problem is it providing aid to states like your own, which has been under major attack by insurgents?
That was what we were arguing or the government was arguing. If you want to help me, then you are supposed to carry me along, so that I can tell you as a government why they need the help most, what kind of help they need and what kind of activities will help me.
But when you come and you say you want to independently assess my need and try to help me and help the other person that is killing me or fighting me, I mean, it’s worrisome. For me, it’s just unfortunate that we have gotten to this level.
Nigeria has that resource and the capacity that we don’t need to be given aid. We are supposed to be giving out aids to other countries by now. To me, it’s a kind of blessing in disguise. It’s good now that we are taking these measures, so that we will stand on our own.
Already our government has started responding with this year’s budget. When USAID funds were cut off, the president, I think, adjusted the budget to address the medical needs in the budget and also to start arranging for government to absorb about 2,800 workers of USAID.
If this didn’t come up, maybe we wouldn’t have looked at it in that direction. And as I said, it’s kind of insulting for even Nigeria to go cap in hand s begging or asking for aid. No, we are not supposed to be doing that by looking at the human and natural resources that we have in this country.
This is a collective thing and the country belongs to all of us. It’s not just that not all of us can be senators, you are qualified or more than qualified to be a senator too. Somebody has to be there but he has to do things on behalf of all of us. That is what the government of the day is striving to do.
The All Progressives Congress (APC), especially the government of President Bola Tinubu is just two years old and we still have three months to two years in office. The first thing that the government or what the government is trying to do now is to address these problems. The only thing is that the problems are so many. They are in the power sector; they are in government efficiency, inflation and all that. Take one at a time or as they come.
Now that USAID is no more coming, the government has to look around and make arrangements to see how we can take care of things ourselves. The situation in this country started degenerating in 1999 when the civilian government came. The Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) was the one in power for 16 years.
Things got worse. And then Nigerians, you know, decided to change it, and bring in APC. Also, the problem has not been solved. Muhammadu Buhari went for eight years and now Tinubu is here for two years. He’s trying to fix things.
Do you think it will be possible to verify the allegation against USAID here in Nigeria, or you would encourage the U.S. government to carry out an investigation as part of its overall assessment the agency?
I read that the U.S. government has already directed its embassy to investigate and find out how much of USAID funds Nigeria received, and what the money was used for. I was happy to read that because that means we will be moving in the same direction in Nigeria with the U.S. government.
And I believe that by the time we speak to the Nigerian security agencies, we’ll have a way forward on whether we should reach out to their office here. Boko Haram is my worry and the resurgence of the insurgency.
It’s becoming, in fact, more sophisticated because I don’t know whether you heard about drone attacks from them. The last time I went to my village when we had that attack again, they were saying that they saw the Boko Haram with brand new vehicles and that’s worrying. So, I believe that this investigation will be able to help us out.
