Secretary to the Government of the Federation (SGF), George Akume, in this interview monitored on TVC’s Politics on Sunday, speaks on the Tax Reform Bills and opposition to the bills by some northern political leaders.

He also spoke on the 2027 presidency, advising northern politicians, including Atiku Abubakar, to wait until 2031 for another presidential bid

Are you surprised by the interests the Tax Reform Bills are generating, especially the resistance from certain quarters?

In every civilised society, there is always something that will generate some intense interest, so ours is not an exception. Nigerians are very spirited people; they like to make comments on public issues.

They like to talk but sometimes it is always good to study an issue very carefully before you can make an informed comment.

Tax reforms are new in this country. For the past 50 years, nobody has made any attempt whatsoever to reform our tax system in spite of the fact that the laws have become archaic, out of date and so there was this need to modernize the tax system and to ensure maximum value for what we can generate for the benefit of our people.

I believe that as lovers of democracy and as people who love our country, our comments on such issues should not be driven by sectional or primordial feelings.

We should try as much as possible to look at these bills in terms of their intent, in terms of their purpose and meaning and in terms of their credibility, so that at the end of the day, all of us will once again sit down as Nigerians and celebrate these laws.

Have you taken into account the arguments made by those opposing the bills? They assert that the legislation undermines the interests of their region and are advocating for its withdrawal. How do you respond to these objections?

l don’t look at it from that angle because when you people from a section say the bills should be withdrawn. Maybe, I come from that section. I am from the North and I am 100 per cent in support of these bills.

These bills followed the normal process before they were finally transmitted to the National Assembly for legislation. These bills were brought to the Federal Executive Council well crafted by the Attorney General of the Federation and then finally sent to the National Assembly.

These bills are not against any section of this country, rather the bills are pro-poor, those who are earning less than N800,000 per annum. It is also pro-growth, those who own small businesses and whose earnings are below N50 million per annum, they will not pay company tax. And education, hospitals and so on are exempted from tax.

If we say it is pro-poor it doesn’t mean there are only poor people in the South, we have poor people across the country. So, these bills are nationalistic, has nothing to do with a section of this country. It is not targeted against the North. I am also a northerner and I have spent time a lot to read some of these bills.

There’s quite a lot that has been proposed in these bills, some of these issues I have mentioned, I have spoken to quite a number of northerners and they are not opposed to these bills. In a Democracy, no matter how difficult, no matter how tough the problem is, it can always be solved through consensus.

Are you saying those opposing the bills do not speak for the North despite admitting that in a democracy, everyone should have a say?

I am saying that people have their own personal agenda. There are others who are attacking the bills purely from the opposition perspective politics. It is coming from the party in power, and therefore, we had to attack it in order to garner support for 2027.

It is not really that they are speaking, some of them may claim they have spoken to notable Northerners, I have also spoken to notable Northerners and they are not against the bills.

Some of them are religious people, others are senior citizens of Nigeria from the North. So, my candid advice will be that in the final analysis, the bill has gone to the National Assembly, and if they have any comment, they should put it down in writing or whenever the National Assembly decides to hold a public hearing, they can make their views.

But to say let us go on protests doesn’t help the course or peace at all. It will never dampen the spirit of those who are supportive of these bills. I don’t want us to hold onto the view that we Northerners are being victimized by the bills, that is not what is in the bills. We have to be careful about this. Every section of this country is going to benefit.

If you look at the issue of VAT, the Federal Government was talking 15 per cent; the Federal Government has dropped five per cent and added to the states. The state governments; their benefits are about 55 per cent, while the local governments will take 35 per cent. So, in this arrangement, we have more local governments in the North, we have more states in the North, so you see more money will be going to them as well.

Basically, what I am saying is that let’s give the bills a chance, let’s support them because in the final analysis, it will propel the economy and such prosperity will enhance fiscal sustainability.

Is the resistance to President Bola Tinubu’s administration primarily due to lack of communication and consultation before the introduction of key bills?

I don’t think it’s because of lack of communication. The whole process was followed before the bills came to the Federal Executive Council. In the course of the preparation of the bills, a lot of consultations were also held.

Let us allow power to reside in the South for eight years and from there it will come to the North. To do otherwise, honestly is to destroy this country

Maybe not wide enough…

It was. You know the President himself is also a senator. He is an intense believer and a great disciple of democracy and wouldn’t do anything that will subvert the system.

As you are positing here, that could it be that there was not enough consultation, even if that was the case, we also have the National Assembly, all the states are represented.

If you read the bills carefully, it is really to generate more revenue to a situation where the big guys pay more while the poor pay very little. Just like what the democrats do in the United States of America. So, when we say it is pro-poor, it is very true. President Tinubu is not going to tax poverty, he is going to recreate the economy for the benefit of the Nigerian people.

Once these bills become law and are properly implemented and the will to implement is there, then it will also lessen over dependence on oil. So many people are commenting on the bills but if you ask them which of the sections do you disagree with, they may not be able to tell you.

I have respect for people who have dissenting voices because that is the bane of democracy, people will have to disagree but sometimes if we learn to disagree within the context of objective reality, the better for us.

Given the distrust in government policies following the fuel subsidy removal, which many believe has caused economic hardship, how do you address concerns that Nigerians are now hesitant about the new Tax Reform Bills?

Well, fuel subsidy regime has always been a torn in the flesh of every government in this country since we returned to participatory democracy in 1999. Every president had toyed with the idea of fuel subsidy removal.

The problem again was that it grew exponentially over the years with every president complaining but lacking the determination, the courage to remove the fuel subsidy.

It became big and uncontrollable like an Indian cow prepared for their normal festivals. I was talking to Prof.Benedict Oramah, one of the best economists you can find in the world. He is the President of Afreximbank and he told me that it was the best decision that President Tinubu took in the oil industry.

He said it came to a point where the government could not pay for the cost of importation of petroleum products for Nigeria. Nigeria had to approach him finally when other banks said they had reached their allowable limits, they wouldn’t give us any credit line, so he had to step in to do it. So, he said that was the best decision that was taken.

I’m not an economist, maybe a motor park economist, but I believe what Prof. Oramah said and many economists have said it is true. I also have a small team, they are very experienced people, some of them are young but very talented and they made comments that it was the best decision as far as this was concerned.

A few people were benefiting from that fuel subsidy but he took that decision, and at the same time, we are witnessing expansion in other sectors of the economy.

If you look at the transportation sector for instance, CNG buses are being imported, CNG buses are being produced and conversion kits have been bought and are being distributed and those who want to convert from petrol to CNG are free to do so.

This will eventually reduce the cost of the transportation and by implication the cost of food. The truth is that this decision has unlocked a lot of money for development in the local governments and in the states.

So, it is not just a matter of the Federal Government alone contributing, it is a question of all the tiers of government coming together to ensure that we have prosperity in the land of course with the Federal Government giving direction and taking the lead.

You mentioned earlier that politicians often treat opposition to bills as a political game, criticizing policies just because they aren’t from their party. However, someone who is not a member of APC said that the main opposition to these bills is from APC members. What’s happening in your party?

The opposition to the bills are not coming from members of the APC. That would be too sweeping a statement to make. I am also a member of APC, I am not opposing.

But Some Members Of The APC In The National Assembly are speaking against the bills…

Well, not everybody in the National Assembly is speaking up against the bills. There are many members of the National Assembly who are very supportive of the bills.

Let’s be honest, if you go back to the issue of subsidy removal, when presidential candidates were going round the country campaigning, all of them promised to remove fuel subsidy. If they turned around today to say it is wrong, then you will understand the politics behind it.

And these particular bills, I believe will sail through because there are so many opportunities for our country. Let’s discuss the prospects of President Tinubu’s proposed reforms, which he deems necessary.

You’ve mentioned that while more funds are being allocated to states and local governments as regards subsidy removal, many Nigerians feel these benefits haven’t reached them. Additionally, there are concerns that not all reforms are yielding the expected results.

For example, the infrastructure for CNG buses is lacking, forcing reliance on petrol with high prices. Furthermore, the anticipated reopening of the Port Harcourt refinery has not generated optimism among Nigerians. What are your thoughts on these issues? I tend to defer. If you look at the reforms in the financial sector, what has happened to the banking industry.

First of all, the presidency brought a very energetic person to look at the operations of the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) and other critical sets and based on the recommendations of that investigator, four different forex windows were closed down by the CBN and then these tax reforms you are talking about. So, it is not that the reforms are not yielding results. Today, the naira is exchanging for 1,500 to a dollar from 1,700 and it was even getting to 1,800.

Sometimes, we are quick to forget the past. By the time this government came to power on May 29, 2023, how much did we have in our foreign reserves? I know what the economist said, it said minus zero but how much do we have there today? It’s close to $40 billion. If the reforms are not working we will not be talking about foreign direct investment coming. Recently, you heard about our re-entry into Eurobond after failed attempts by the past governments.

So, things are working, and like I said, it is not something you wake up overnight and everything becomes Uhuru. Look at the agric sector, more imputs are being distributed to farmers and on time; importation of food items has also been stepped up and there’s no duty paid on these imported food items.

Gradually, we are going to get there. Remember a contract has already been awarded for the production of tractors in the country. The intention here is to ensure that every household has access to these critical inputs in the field of agric production.

So, if you say it is not trickling down, remember what the Supreme Court did recently. There was a judgement that the autonomy of the local governments must be respected and they should have their own money, they have direct access to their money, they shouldn’t go through any other arrangement at the state level.

If the local governments are working maximally and efficiently, some of the problems we have may be a thing of the past. I was once a local government chairman, a sole administrator, I know what they can do at that level, reaching out to the poor people, giving them small jobs to do, employing them and also know who and who can be placed on stipend every month.

You inaugurated a panel on implementation of local government autonomy. When should we expect that report and its implementation?

Very soon, you will see the report. Quite a lot has been done to ensure that implementation is done in a very seamless manner for the benefit of the people of this country.

You said you were once a local government chairman, also once a governor. We’ve seen some commentaries of what appears to be governors opposed to the implementation of the local government autonomy. What are the governors scared of?

Well, I don’t think the Federal Government will be opposed to what the state governments are doing and by extension the governors should be opposed to autonomy for local governments. Actually, local governments are democratized and their democratization is guaranteed by the constitution.

If the reforms are not working we will not be talking about foreign direct investment coming. So, things are working, and like I said, it is not something you wake up overnight and everything becomes Uhuru

The essence is that once they are freely elected by the people, they are also answerable to the people and they’ll be able to use funds available to them for the development of their respective councils and that is why they are recognised and treated as a tier of government and they have access to the federation account.

And I think that not all governors are opposed to autonomy of local governments. A few may have some reservation but basically the local governments are expected to be autonomous and so that they will run the affairs and to complement what is taking place at the state level and maybe at the federal level.

Another report Nigerians are expecting is the implementation of the Oronsaye’s report. There was an announcement from the Minister of Information saying that some ministries and agencies would be merged and cost of governance reduced. But these have not really translated into much despite President Tinubu’s commitment to the implementation of this report?

Policy decisions are not implemented as one outside of the government system would expect.

You will recall that this report by Oronsaye was concluded and submitted before the Muhammadu Buhari administration came to power and I think before Goodluck Jonathan. It was during this our time that the President decided to take a keen interest in it.

So, if you say it is taking time, don’t forget the time it was also submitted and it is within this time of President Tinubu that action is being taken on it.

Let’s talk politics now. 2027 is still more than two years away but it appears that the build-up is already gaining momentum. We have seen different groups forming alliances and different coalitions coming up now; some might metamorphose into political parties and their aim is to take power from the APC and unseat President Tinubu. As a politician who also has been in the game for so long, do you see anybody challenging President Tinubu or giving APC a run for its money in 2027 and what is your take on the belief that APC has fretted away its goodwill?

There was a time we had over 60 political parties. This is democracy and people are entitled to their views. Again, in a democracy, you always have groups springing up and forming alliances, creating movements and intending to transform them into political parties. The political ball quite frankly has started to roll.

There is one group which is headed by the former Governor of Kano State, the secretary is from Benue State, Barrister Emmanuel Obioma Ogwuegbu, he was a member of the House of Representatives at a time.

People have a right to form alliances but my candid advice to my people in the North is this: As you form your alliances, it is okay and fine but make sure your candidates are also from the South. Why because, that is one thing that will guarantee our territorial integrity and unity. I recall that in 1999, in Kaduna, we met at the invitation of our leaders.

When I talk about we, I mean governors-elect on the platform of the PDP in the North were summoned to Kaduna by our leaders led by Chief Solomon Lar, he was assisted by Mallam Adamu Chiroma.

These were very respected people, Others included Abubakar Rimi, Sule Lamido, Isaac Sha, Prof. Sulieman Abdulrazak, Jerry Gana and a host of others. I think there were about 20 of them. Now, what was the discussion? Power shift.

They told us there was volatility in the polity because the South had a view that power has been domiciled in the North for too long since independence, that it was time for power to shift to the South. And they said that the annulment of June 12 had complicated the whole thing.

Therefore, we must support the power shift to the South. We had some reservations as young people but they proffered very serious arguments, power being in the South for eight years, in the North eight years, and we will be alternating. And really, that was what brought sanity to the system. That was number one, number two, who should be the candidate. It was agreed that Chief Olusegun Obasanjo should be the candidate.

That was the decision we took in Kaduna on power shift. I don’t think anybody would deviate from that. So, we went to Jos and elected Obasanjo as our flag bearer. That is why when the issue of third term started, some of us opposed it completely because it was not in the spirit of the gentleman’s agreement we had in Kaduna.

And it was not anything personal, we believed it was wrong and unconstitutional too. That what I said at the convocation of Nile University, where I was given an honorary doctorate. I appealed with my brothers in the North to wait till 2031 to run for presidential election. It is not yet the time for the North to throw in the brick. It’s not yet the time.

From all indications, especially from the side of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) it appears that if Atiku Abubakar have his way, the party might field a northern candidate?

Incidentally too, with due respect, Atiku too was part of that meeting. By that time, he was still governor and I was also a leader, a noted leader.

And he signed on to that?

Yes, so it’s not yet time for the North. This has been my appeal to them. Let us not destroy our country because of personal ambition. If it is the will of God, at 90, you can still be president of this country.

If it is not His will, you will never be. But my advice, and this has been consistent, is that let us not rock the boat. Let us allow power to reside in the South for eight years and from there it will come to the North. To do otherwise, honestly is to destroy this country.

When President Obasanjo was on the throne, there were attempts to impeach him, I issued a statement quickly, if you impeach Obasanjo, you impeached Nigeria because that wasn’t the agreement that we will impeach him, so that a northerner will take over.

No. That wouldn’t be correct. I still maintain my stance and this is an appeal. Maybe, some people don’t know what took place in Kaduna that brought peace to this country.

So, you are not against groups forming alliances but whoever they bring as candidates must come from the South and not the North…

Yes. And that candidate will be defeated by us. Nobody should say that we have lost our goodwill. We haven’t. No government would have done better than what we are doing.

But I listened to a podcast by a colleague where he spoke with an APC member and asked him whether the party will win if an election was to be conducted and he expressed doubts?

That is his personal view. But an election was conducted recently in Edo, and we won. Election was conducted in Ondo recently, and we won.

What if it is a presidential election?

What is different from the state? Incidentally, the policies of the government are impacting. All this issue about I am governor of a state and then when it comes to the presidential election, I will not campaign for my president, I will go and campaign for some other person somewhere to win.

It is very funny and I have no doubt in my mind that we’re going to win. Sometimes, somebody will have his own personal problem and try to visit others.

So, I think it’s just a matter of understanding and I know some people may not be happy with certain things but the party has its own mechanism for resolving some of these people, make peace with people, reconcile and so on.

If we were to lose, we would have started losing the governorship elections because state elections are major elections too.

Speaking about some people not being happy, I’ve also listened to some members of your party who feel left out after campaigning and helping the party win the election…

I think what our government has been doing is to try to have a mix of technocrats and politicians. It is not yet too late for people to be accommodated, it’s coming gradually. The lists are coming out in bits.